The Time Has Come !

[trendtech]

Quote from saxon22:

After studying "IT" for a little bit over a year, I have finally decided to wet my feet in "real water" and next week is my last one trading on the sim. I have decided to deposit 6K into a trading account and begin my education - Level II chapter. This is my tuition and I am willing to "donate it" to the market, hoping that this "entrance fee" will allow me to get better at trading and sharpen necessary skills to defeat "the futures Monster". Consequently, if all of the 6K disappears, I will not jump off the bridge or go insane and run naked through my neighborhood. I feel that I have hit the wall with the sim and in order for me to improve I need to start doing it for real. I will only trade 1 ES contract and will exit the market after reaching - $100 per trade or - $500 a day limit.

So MY QUESTION IS:

Provided my system works and I stay profitable and devote another year to be able to get to a position where I could comfortably and profitably trade anywhere from 20 to 50 ES contracts. How much money should I have in my account to be able to accomplish it? I gathered from the articles and books I have read that I should not risk more than 5% of my total amount. What do you guys feel should the amount be?




Disclaimer: I am not going to exercise the above scenario until I am profitable for a minimum of 1 year (trading 1 then 2, then 3, then 5 contracts profitably) and 100% comfortable placing 20 contracts at the time.


saxon22

You will need $100K. You should not trade live unless you are consistently profitable on a simulator for at least 6 months. My advice is to open an account with a required minimum and get on a sim and trade the size you plan to trade live using the same platform you will be using in real trading. You will need to stay on a sim as long as it takes for you are consistently profitable.
Do not give any tuition fees to the market as you will not learn anything about trading by trowing money away.

 

[Neet]

Quote from trendtech:


Do not give any tuition fees to the market as you will not learn anything about trading by trowing money away.

I second that.

 

[formikatrading]

For what it's worth, I'm starting with $7500 in an account and plan to trade the e-mini S&P's with the following maximum number of contracts based on account value:

Initial ($7500)
1 Overnight
2 Intraday

$10,000
1 Overnight
3 Intraday

$12,500
2 Overnight
4 Intraday

$15,000
2 Overnight
6 Intraday

$20,000
3 Overnight
8 Intraday

$25,000
4 Overnight
10 Intraday

 

[Neet]

Quote from formikatrading:

For what it's worth, I'm starting with $7500 in an account and plan to trade the e-mini S&P's with the following maximum number of contracts based on account value:

Initial ($7500)
1 Overnight
2 Intraday

$10,000
1 Overnight
3 Intraday

$12,500
2 Overnight
4 Intraday

$15,000
2 Overnight
6 Intraday

$20,000
3 Overnight
8 Intraday

$25,000
4 Overnight
10 Intraday

Your strategy better have absolutely minimal drawdown or it will wipe you out faster than you can say "oh shit!".

 

[ammo]

saxon you can make $500 a day trading 2 lots,thats bears 2 per 2500 rule,if you set a rule and trade by it you'll make money,if you don't follow your rules you mght get away with it here and there but will eventuallly get caught,you can live on 2500 a week i assume. The biggest thing you have to learn is to stick to your rules,that s the only thing between you and $0. size rule ,stop or loss rule, dont trade last 45 minute rule,if there is no setup then there is no trade rule,the best trades are the ones you don't take (if i would've bought where i wanted to i would have lost $400)$12 dollars is a good day,compared to $-375, maximum loss per day rule,should be amount your trying to make($500) and when a trade is done,win or lose ,forget about it.Don't get cocky after a string of winners,thats how vegas gets all their money back, don't beat yourself up after a string of losers,takes away your confidence.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from ammo:

saxon you can make $500 a day trading 2 lots,thats bears 2 per 2500 rule,if you set a rule and trade by it you'll make money,if you don't follow your rules you might get away with it here and there but will eventually get caught,you can live on 2500 a week i assume. The biggest thing you have to learn is to stick to your rules,that s the only thing between you and $0. size rule ,stop or loss rule, dont trade last 45 minute rule,if there is no setup then there is no trade rule,the best trades are the ones you don't take (if i would've bought where i wanted to i would have lost $400)$12 dollars is a good day,compared to $-375, maximum loss per day rule,should be amount your trying to make($500) and when a trade is done,win or lose ,forget about it.Don't get cocky after a string of winners,thats how vegas gets all their money back, don't beat yourself up after a string of losers,takes away your confidence.

So far the greatest obstacle to my trading have been obeying the rules. However, I am working on it and that is why I am postponing my entrance for another week.
As for $2500 a week, that is enough, however, I would like to increase that amount substantially in the future. Thanks for the tips.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from trendtech:

You will need $100K. You should not trade live unless you are consistently profitable on a simulator for at least 6 months. My advice is to open an account with a required minimum and get on a sim and trade the size you plan to trade live using the same platform you will be using in real trading. You will need to stay on a sim as long as it takes for you are consistently profitable.
Do not give any tuition fees to the market as you will not learn anything about trading by trowing money away.

I have done the sim route with live feed and have been profitable. I used th same firm that I will use for trading, same DOM ect. I have been doing the live thing since Christmas. I think the time has come to test my emotional skills and discipline and for that I need to go live and put real money on the line. It is one thing to play the sim and quiet another doing it with $$$$$. That is why I am going in. I am prepared to lose the initial 6K, However, I am not planning on giving it away either. Of course I much rather keep it or even make profit from it, as a matter of fact I am counting on it, but if the money evaporates, I will not slash my wrists.

 

[volente_00]

Turn the PnL off on the real account and trade just as if it was the sim account. The result will surprise you. The minute you turn it back on and start counting the money you will start to lose discipline and break the rules.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from saxon22:

How much one should have to trade 50 contracts?

FWIW, I know a guy that is known to throw 40 lots around on a less than 30k account.



The account size is not relevant. It is how much heat you can take emotionally. The key in futures is to start small and take baby steps while building the account up. Over time the size will come naturally with experience and the confidence you have instilled in yourself.

 

[TRS]

Quote from saxon22:

With the 1 ES contract - as often as my set up allows me to make money. I it is once every 30 minutes then that what it will be. If it is once every 2 hours then ... you get the drift.

With 50 contracts - I would probably limit the amount of RT's and only concentrate on those set ups that are a lot less risky. I would imagine 1 fill i the morning and 1 fill after lunch. Only going for what i would perceive as extremely high probability scenarios.

Why change the plan when you get to 50 cars?