The Surf Report--part 2

Quote from marketsurfer:

Thanks for the compliment, but a small correction of fact.

VN did not fail at trading. I would venture to say that he is net positive $50 million plus-- even after the blow ups. Does he have some demons that haunt him, sure, we all do--- but overall VN is far from a failure at trading.

surf

PS. by the way, I am meeting with him next weekend-- i'll be sure to pass along your sentiments. :D :D
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Then why did he liquidate his fine silverware & household items in `98?...these are not the actions of a well capitalized individual.


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112164&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
 
Right now we are still holding tight with the shorts-- while there has been a slight shift in the underlying drivers--- its not enough to bail out of the trade-- stops remain at 1157---

there is a potential that this drop will continue in the abyss testing the 1101 level....fingers crossed!

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Thanks for the compliment, but a small correction of fact.

VN did not fail at trading. I would venture to say that he is net positive $50 million plus-- even after the blow ups. Does he have some demons that haunt him, sure, we all do--- but overall VN is far from a failure at trading.

surf

PS. by the way, I am meeting with him next weekend-- i'll be sure to pass along your sentiments. :D :D
More...

Surf.....a trader who blows out/loses everything is a failure. There is no room for error here. What makes VN's situation so bad is he did it twice.The guy is a genius and beyond smart, but being smart and a great trader are two very different things.

Explain to me how he is net positive after blowing up? Mathematically that is impossible, unless you are cherry picking certain parts of his career.

At the end of the day numbers don't lie, and his end ones were as bad as one can get.

But he did put me on to a very good book so I do owe him thanks for that:

Bacon's Secrets of Professional Turf Betting


Was lucky enough to get a copy yrs ago............very hard to find.
 
Quote from Spooz Top:

Then why did he liquidate his fine silverware & household items in `98?...these are not the actions of a well capitalized individual.


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112164&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
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Household items? My man, you are sadly mistaken--VN has more art value on each wall of his home than many homes are worth--

it was a world class collection of silver trophys and presentation pieces, not "household items".

One of many collections VN has amassed over the years--- why he sold it? I have no idea, but I do know he was forced out of his positions by a cabal on the floor-- which he subsequently challenged and won the case in court-----

like it or not, thats the way it is.

surf
 
Quote from EPrado:

Surf.....a trader who blows out/loses everything is a failure. There is no room for error here. What makes VN's situation so bad is he did it twice.The guy is a genius and beyond smart, but being smart and a great trader are two very different things.

Explain to me how he is net positive after blowing up? Mathematically that is impossible, unless you are cherry picking certain parts of his career.

At the end of the day numbers don't lie, and his end ones were as bad as one can get.

But he did put me on to a very good book so I do owe him thanks for that:

Bacon's Secrets of Professional Turf Betting


Was lucky enough to get a copy yrs ago............very hard to find.
More...

Yeah, that's a great book! I think it sells for $100's on ebay if you can find it.

Yeah, he blew up 2 funds. the first blow up was caused by being forced out of positions by ?? on the floor--- he subsequently sued and won the case proving what actually happened.

The second time--- I don't know what happened---

He was paid to take big risks by the investors--- sometimes risk doesnt' work out.

You don't think VN trades his own money outside of the funds?

Thats all I am going to say, because I really don't know the all the details,


surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Household items? My man, you are sadly mistaken--VN has more art value on each wall of his home than many homes are worth--

it was a world class collection of silver trophys and presentation pieces, not "household items".

One of many collections VN has amassed over the years--- why he sold it? I have no idea, but I do know he was forced out of his positions by a cabal on the floor-- which he subsequently challenged and won the case in court-----

like it or not, thats the way it is.

surf
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Blaming the floor traders for his loss. Puleeeeeeeeze. Do not go there Surf. That whole whining episode by VN was sad. Like many other losing traders they point the finger at everyone else for their failure. He put on himself in that position to get obliterated...nobody forced anything.

Surf, the bottom line is, he tried running a fund twice, blew out twice, and never recovered. How you can praise him as some great trader is ridiculous. Hopefully, if he still does trade his own $, he isn't doing the SAME OLD THING again and selling puts. If so he is gonna have to have another garage sale.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Yeah, that's a great book! I think it sells for $100's on ebay if you can find it.

Yeah, he blew up 2 funds. the first blow up was caused by being forced out of positions by ?? on the floor--- he subsequently sued and won the case proving what actually happened.

The second time--- I don't know what happened---

He was paid to take big risks by the investors--- sometimes risk doesnt' work out.

You don't think VN trades his own money outside of the funds?

Thats all I am going to say, because I really don't know the all the details,


surf
More...

So he lost all his investors money twice, but did very well with his own outside money? That's not something one would brag about...or even mention.
 
Quote from EPrado:

Blaming the floor traders for his loss. Puleeeeeeeeze. Do not go there Surf. That whole whining episode by VN was sad. Like many other losing traders they point the finger at everyone else for their failure. He put on himself in that position to get obliterated...nobody forced anything.

Surf, the bottom line is, he tried running a fund twice, blew out twice, and never recovered. How you can praise him as some great trader is ridiculous. Hopefully, if he still does trade his own $, he isn't doing the SAME OLD THING again and selling puts. If so he is gonna have to have another garage sale.
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All I know is he won the case. I don't know personally what actually occurred but the evidence appears to be in his favor.

Well one way you can determine if a persons ideas have merit is to look at the people who were taught by them. At least a dozen 100 million plus to billion dollar size hyper successful fund managers were taught by VN. Obviously, the evidence is his ideas have great value and shouldn't be dismissed.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

All I know is he won the case. I don't know personally what actually occurred but the evidence appears to be in his favor. surf
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Again, that has zero to do with him being beyond over leveraged and putting on positions that he knew could cause his implosion. He was caught short puts during a huge move down.....plain and simple...he lost. The floor guys did not put a gun to his head and make him put on the trade.

As far as the case......maybe the traders/exchange on the other side of his blow up made so much money they were ok with giving him something back :D
 
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