The Subconscious mind...

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I went through the following cycle several times: inconsistent results from intraday trades lprompted me to a) avoid pushing trades in that time frame (increase selectivity) and b) reducing trade size. Profitability then becomes more consistent; confidence returns to the method/time frame, so an increase in motivation and position size follows. Greater expected profitability leads to higher proclivity in looking for and initiating trades; selectivity falls and profitability soon deteriorates. Frustration and loss of confidence signal a return to inconsistency. Cycle repeats.

As optimal selectivity and position size are inversely correlated in this cycle, its repetition = continued losses. Breaking this chain entailed taking a step back and recognizing the irrational ebb and flow of expectation and results; as is often the case, progress came from consciously reversing natural instincts, but it didn't come easy for me. Anyways, just an example of how things aren't so clear cut when it comes to simply increasing position size.
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your advice and comments. Part of me is happy to be consistent and profitable, and the other part of me knows that there is a lot more to make out there and, with my abilities and experience, I feel I should be able to get to the next level and beyond. I think we all know and will admit to the fact that your own mind can really hold you back from achieving greater things. Thats why i started this thread. I know that I cannot be the only person that feels the way I do.
Anyways, in the last 4 or 5 trading days or so, I have stepped up my game a little in certain situations and have had 4 very good days in a row ($800+ net avg for those 4 days). Could be a result of the stocks I trade along with my added agressiveness, but either way I feel a little better about my trading. Hopefully this will be the start of better trading!!
 
Quote from Steve Tvardek:

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your advice and comments. Part of me is happy to be consistent and profitable, and the other part of me knows that there is a lot more to make out there and, with my abilities and experience, I feel I should be able to get to the next level and beyond. I think we all know and will admit to the fact that your own mind can really hold you back from achieving greater things. Thats why i started this thread. I know that I cannot be the only person that feels the way I do.
Anyways, in the last 4 or 5 trading days or so, I have stepped up my game a little in certain situations and have had 4 very good days in a row ($800+ avg for those 5 days). Could be a result of the stocks I trade along with my added agressiveness, but either way I feel a little better about my trading. Hopefully this will be the start of better trading!!
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Thats great news. Good luck.
 
Quote from Steve Tvardek:

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your advice and comments. Part of me is happy to be consistent and profitable, and the other part of me knows that there is a lot more to make out there and, with my abilities and experience, I feel I should be able to get to the next level and beyond. I think we all know and will admit to the fact that your own mind can really hold you back from achieving greater things. Thats why i started this thread. I know that I cannot be the only person that feels the way I do.
Anyways, in the last 4 or 5 trading days or so, I have stepped up my game a little in certain situations and have had 4 very good days in a row ($800+ net avg for those 4 days). Could be a result of the stocks I trade along with my added agressiveness, but either way I feel a little better about my trading. Hopefully this will be the start of better trading!!
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Again, like in my previous post, that means nothing if you feel you need to 'find the way' because it doesn't show what your $800 avg means. $800 can be a 1000% or simply 0.0001% profit. The question is: Why are you not happy with your results? Could it be that you are inherently greedy?
 
I work at a prop firm in jersey city nj, i have 300k buying power. I go home flat everyday. I dont swing trade yet. I only make intraday profits trading NYSE. I am looking for a way to break though my mental barriers because I feel that I dont take enough advantage of what I feel I see in the market everyday. If I felt I was working at capacity, then I'd be happy. But I know I leave way too much on the table each and everday and know that I could do a lot better. My $800 avg these last 4 days is better because it's outside my normal range to the upside which is, of course, improvement. Does this help answer any questions?



Quote from cooldude:

Again, like in my previous post, that means nothing if you feel you need to 'find the way' because it doesn't show what your $800 avg means. $800 can be a 1000% or simply 0.0001% profit. The question is: Why are you not happy with your results? Could it be that you are inherently greedy?
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pigs get slaughtered, but sometimes one needs to be a pig. it takes courage to be a pig.

Quote from Steve Tvardek:

I work at a prop firm in jersey city nj, i have 300k buying power. I go home flat everyday. I dont swing trade yet. I only make intraday profits trading NYSE. I am looking for a way to break though my mental barriers because I feel that I dont take enough advantage of what I feel I see in the market everyday. If I felt I was working at capacity, then I'd be happy. But I know I leave way too much on the table each and everday and know that I could do a lot better. My $800 avg these last 4 days is better because it's outside my normal range to the upside which is, of course, improvement. Does this help answer any questions?
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First think positive! $800/day is great.
2nd, do soul searching and make a list of your weaknesses.
3rd, do soul searching and make a list of your strengths.

Be honest in both. you're obviously do great but you may simply be dwelling on the negative too much to improve yourself.

Next, take the least painful issue, break it down into its parts. Such as
sensation, source of pain, real and imaginary parts. Also notice how much you increase your fear, pain, anxiety, stress or whatever over that issue. I feel you will soon see that you add a lot of artificial worry about the issue. Then come up with a way to reprogram yourself so that this issue now has a much lower value to you than before.

For instance, if you worry about tick-by-tick movement, your soul searching may tell you that you really are concerned about how other people will view you if you 'fail in this trade' You soul searching may also tell you that this issue comes into your trading because you may have a general problem with this in other areas of your life but it's magnified in trading.

So now you get to reprogram yourself by believing that your social concerns do not apply to this particular trade. To do this, notice when the painful sensation start to rise within you, step back and remember that it really has nothing to do with this trade it's just standard human procedure to carry over issues from one aspect of your life to another. This safety mechanism helped us survive the stone age but it's destructive in trading.

Practice with this soul searching, reprogramming, sensation monitoring technique until this least painful issue is resolved. Then start on one of your strengths. Go through this process again until you truly value your strength because I assume you under value your strength.

Now finally work through every issue on your list alternating between strength and weakness for a good balance. I hope that soon you will see better results in your trading. More importanly, please refine this technique to suit your personal style and maximize your potential.

Best wishes
chip
 
Quote from chipper338:

First think positive! $800/day is great.
2nd, do soul searching and make a list of your weaknesses.
3rd, do soul searching and make a list of your strengths.

Be honest in both. you're obviously do great but you may simply be dwelling on the negative too much to improve yourself.

Next, take the least painful issue, break it down into its parts. Such as
sensation, source of pain, real and imaginary parts. Also notice how much you increase your fear, pain, anxiety, stress or whatever over that issue. I feel you will soon see that you add a lot of artificial worry about the issue. Then come up with a way to reprogram yourself so that this issue now has a much lower value to you than before.

For instance, if you worry about tick-by-tick movement, your soul searching may tell you that you really are concerned about how other people will view you if you 'fail in this trade' You soul searching may also tell you that this issue comes into your trading because you may have a general problem with this in other areas of your life but it's magnified in trading.

So now you get to reprogram yourself by believing that your social concerns do not apply to this particular trade. To do this, notice when the painful sensation start to rise within you, step back and remember that it really has nothing to do with this trade it's just standard human procedure to carry over issues from one aspect of your life to another. This safety mechanism helped us survive the stone age but it's destructive in trading.

Practice with this soul searching, reprogramming, sensation monitoring technique until this least painful issue is resolved. Then start on one of your strengths. Go through this process again until you truly value your strength because I assume you under value your strength.

Now finally work through every issue on your list alternating between strength and weakness for a good balance. I hope that soon you will see better results in your trading. More importanly, please refine this technique to suit your personal style and maximize your potential.

Best wishes
chip
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Good post chip.

I will relate with an example that had just happened about 2 hours ago and is still fresh in my mind.

Friday, I was watching CAFE all day. It was looking like a good trade and I accumulated 1100 shares at 10.41 avg price going into the close. I had a strong gut feeling about this one and that it was going to get even more extended on Monday. I trusted my instincts 100%.

The whole weekend I started doubting myself and my system. The reason I was insecure was because I usually don't ever hold that much size in one equity overnight. I was mentally blocking my-self from realizing the true potential of this trade from the very beginning.

Well, this morning, CAFE gapped up into high 11's and I was looking at a nice 1.5k gain. This is about when all the fears that I dwelled on over the weekend came out. Fears like, "I held too much size", "I risked too much", "what if it sells down hard and I am off to a poor start of the week", "I already far exceeded my profit goal", "don't be greedy", etc. My mind was playing games on me all the while I was ignoring the price action of the stock - it was fairly clearly preparing for another strong move.

All the doubts that consumed me over the weekend made my morning a fear filled one right from the start and because of my insecurities I sold all my position at 12. I watched the stock move to 15 soon after.

Well, I now realized that my mental block was a fear of risking money beyond my profit goal for any given day. I've had 2k days before and today I had no idea the possibility of pulling 5k in this short amount of time.

These issues have plagued me in the past. I cut losers instantly and have great discipline in that regard, however, when it comes to unrealized profits, I am a complete wuss. Insecurity and fear will cause me to stray from my goals. In the above case it would have been an easy thing to just put on a .50 trail and take a walk but my fear was to get out whilst I had the percieved maximum profit at the time.

Mike
 
Quote from Grob109:

Steve, chipping and Mike,

None of you know what you are talking about nor what you are doing.
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Okay. I have little ego so inform me about my perception of myself then.

My post was not offerring advice but rather an example people could possibly learn from. My behaviour needs to change and this is a difficult process that am contstantly refining.

Maybe I was obtuse hence I will make it very clear what I believe chip's (and my) point was - know yourself and your weakness and make a plan to overcome it. I've exposed my weakness - I know what I have to do.

I'm assuming you have no weaknesses and that you never make mistakes. Well then, since you've overcome your demons and trade with no fear or greed then inform us all on how you accomplished such.

Mike

P.S. It is difficult to take you seriously when you come off so arrogant.
 
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