The Stochastic Indicator

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Quote from Maverick1:



Ges,

That's great, maybe Vorzo and others will find valuable information in Jack's posts.

I certainly do, and it greatly improved my trading. Nothing of real value is free. If you want to understand it, you just gotta try harder - think of it as the price you have to pay. Compared to what commercial gurus are charging and the cliche crap you get in return, this is gold.

As if to disprove what I just said, today I completely f#&*ed up.

#1 rocket -> entry on 9:50 break
Long 931.75 9:54
Sell 930.50 9:56
-1.25
Reversed on falling volume on up bar, rocket failing, MACD convg.

#2 Reverse short
Short 930.50 9:56
Cover 932.50 10:02
-2.00
Reversed AGAIN on what looked like new point 3 on rising volume, rocket reentry

#3 Reverse long
Long 932.50 10:02
Sell 930.50 10:14
-2.00
Reversed YET AGAIN, on down volume picking up after unsustainable vol bar at 10:00, rocket failed, MACD x

#4 Reverse short
Short 930.50 10:14
Cover 930.25 10:40
+0.25
Washed as I finally realized that this was CCC.
Day -5.00

Gruesome day. It all stems from one "minor" detail that I overlooked: the big picture. Mkt was in a lateral trend since Fri at noon - see 15m chart in next post. Coupled with a sick compulsion to reverse and lousy execution.
The losing streak is here...
 

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Quote from jack hershey:



What we are beginning here at this point is to look at the market participants more closely and we are also beginning the process of separating the "smart money" from the "other money".

There are a few creative practioners who have gotten to the essential babis for making money and they are complemented by a class of analysts who have made it their business to translate certain crucial parts of the investment process into very excellent signals.

The entity traded is most ably characterised by value discrimination; the human element of the market is most closely interpreted by volume considerations. To link the two is the place where optimization begins. As you look at the history of market study and such, you can see the slow evolutionary progress being made.

I watch MA's as an indication of the public progress. First their were long term MA's for price, then shorter ones showed up. IBD at some point introduced volume MA's for the DJ average. To make money you have to work to realize the potential of the market. At some point you become part of a smaller group who are doing quite well by the standards perceived among experts. That group distinguishes itself by a KISS orientation to the essential defining market character.

The A/D aspect of the human element is a factor, when understood, characterized and monitored, puts you in a place that is ahead of the "smart money".

The market is different than most things. I go by plateaux to articulate what is what. You will see comments by 4 out of 5 people who do not share my views. The primary reason is that they are simply in places that do not allow for a breadth of consideration that may be required.

The land of opposites is "the mine field" of investing. Opposites do not apply to the upper reaches of the plateaux of investing.

I introduced the time pair related to trends and change of trend. You can see how people go through this stuff. First some see nothing. Then it appears that there are up and down trends (This is the Bull and Bear levelcof living). Advertising and brokerage folk operate here and avoid understanding more by the tangential stuff called asset allocation and long term this and that. Some where lateral trends become part of the consciousness. Occassionally a person can see the sequence of congestion, convergence and centering. But usually the people go through having a congnicense of "patterns" and formations for specific "end effects of trends that fit into S/R factors or market "off to on" functions (pennants).

It is hard to get to understanding there are three trends (up, down, and lateral) and also and just as important there are time intervals in the market process that are defined by "change". It is almost paradoxical to talk about trends as "continuation"; most people are simply stuck at a level where a trend is change (it is, of course, but in only one aspect of the market called price).

To get to seeing stategically how to use market tools is a long gruelling trip for some. On the other hand for others it is an exciting segment of making money that is super enabling.

The big chunk of information here is that you use reversal strategies during "change" periods and you use "optimization" strategies during "continuation" periods.

To detect the time when you change strategies is best done using signals and indicators related to volume. (Actually a combo of price and volume is what the most accomplished analysts would use. Three of them are the P, V relation inventor, the RSI inventor and the BOP inventor.

The combo of indicators that is best for illustrating the sequence in equities is a fast MAV 5, RSI (See Pring values that he adopted recently), and a slow MAV's (30). The two MAV's relate to an MACD for this. The signal sequence (minimums for an end of a down) is in that order. I have a limited paradigm for equities. This means that I cannot deploy more than a given amount of capital. No one can really and when they do they they limit making money. to normalize, I use shares as the capitalization determinent. My rule is: 100,000 shares max (think 30 dollars a share); never entering or exiting in blocks larger than T&S immediate average; never having cummulative amount of traded shares be over 10% day's volume. The ratio of blocks in to blocks out is 20:30. A prior stipulation is that ,at present I use the IBD recommended min/max float range (5:30MM)and a universe of 150 nominal as determined by adjusting the EPS and RS to highest values possible or 90/90 whichever comes firt.

We are going to use this stuff for the ES mini. I will have to go through a few clarifications as the days go by. Markets don't always give you examples right off of situations you want to use. The nuances we will look for are those where we can be in fundamental trends but, because they are so slow, we will regard them more as tipped S/R ranges.

Right now the most fundamental market driving phenomena is the general malaise of commission driven financial industry people trying to get money back into the market. because the NAZ is up 35% and the DJ over 15%, they types of people are getting to a point of steady commission income flow and it is acting as a narcotic it looks like.

What I am going to do is use the indicators we have on hand and just presume that people have been making money and enough of it for a while. This is a condition where we can get to a KISS orientation and not have any significant "fear" type garbage driving performance.

I think it is safe to assume that a person can make more per day than the H/L range. This is past the plateaux related to all the back testing and "edge" stuff and W/L ratios, etc.

We want to, just understand market operation, and use a combo of strategies to optimize trends and also during "change" pahases learn to stay on the "right" side of the market.

This lets you be in the market a relatively high percentage of the time and also sets up a continual accumulation of $.

I equities today I am holding 5 items, I buy in multiples of 500 shares. It is a mixed market and the current daily profit I have on these 5 ranges from 4.15 min to 6.28 max. The maximum # of accounts where these multiples reside (under POA's in many cases) is 11.

My point is that I do not care what the market is doing; it is simply my practice to continually grind away at making money.

We need to get ourselves calibrated so we can "see" what is going on. The set up we have for ES has actually allowed for much of this to be out of the way.

We need to pull down more than 3 to 5 points a day per contract. We had a real seige of folks here who say that they can't make any money. Now they are going to have to give up this orientation.

Jack, could you please be more precise about the A/D stuff (name(s) of indicator(s), settings, how to read it .... ) ?

Thank you.
 
Jack,

You mentioned in an earlier post to use RSI, MAV 5, and MAV 30 to help determine "change". What settings does one use for RSI?
I googled RSI and found that the common settings are 11, 14, and 24. Thanks.

jc
 
Quote from nwbprop:

Jack,

You mentioned in an earlier post to use RSI, MAV 5, and MAV 30 to help determine "change". What settings does one use for RSI?
I googled RSI and found that the common settings are 11, 14, and 24. Thanks.

jc

The settings I recommend are 5,3,3. For a short going to a long, you will see a spike down as the signal prior to the trend (long) commencing. the MAV5 does a dip, then RSI, then MAV30. The Xover of MAV5 on MAV30 was what we used to show the D to A shift. The RSI falling between the two relative minimums of the MAV's extablishes a nice sequence to take the emotion out of things.
 
One trade today:

Long 931.00 10:45 short channel BO -> rocket signal
Sell 932.75 11:23
channel BO -> rocket failure -> MACD cross. No reversal :p
+1.75

Week -3.25
 

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Quote from jack hershey:



We want to, just understand market operation, and use a combo of strategies to optimize trends and also during "change" phrases learn to stay on the "right" side of the market.


I thought that I would share in hope of sparking interest in this thread again. In terms of optimization, i find that we enter our normal rockets which should be long when 5Mav is above 30Mav and short when 5Mav is below the 30. Before when we had a rocket we would build our channels on the 5 Min using points 1,2, and 3. The predicament i saw was that i was losing money made before during the point 3 pull back. I find that in terms of optimization that i should be getting out before the pullback of point 3. What i should be doing to optimize is get out when the 1 Min trend breaks or the fast line of the stochastics breaks 80. Whichever one is first. THe next point in optimizing the up trend is to get relong on the next 1min xover of the MACD and anticipate it turning into a rocket again. OF course, if our rezoom does not materialize, we get out for a wash. If it does rezoom, we either have trend continuation or consolidation. If price fails to break the previous high or the price doesn't reach the other side of the channel, we would have hopefully reversed and am ready for consolidation or the reversal.
This is only what i think Jack means by optimization of the trend. I am sure there are other things i am missing so feel free to critique.

jc
 
Tough morning, definitely a "change".

#1 slow uptrend -> rocket
Long 929.00 10:31 (HOD, didn't look at 1m to see it peaking)
Sell 926.75 10:37 failed rocket
-2.25

#2 point 3 bounce, up volume rising
Long 926.50 10:51
Sell 926.25 11:03 washed on failure to traverse (slippage due to lousy execution). This was in fact CCC.
-0.25

Day -2.50
Week -5.25

Can't get a good grip lately, always in-out too late or too early. Will stick to the basics for a while.
 

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Quote from nwbprop:



I thought that I would share in hope of sparking interest in this thread again. In terms of optimization, i find that we enter our normal rockets which should be long when 5Mav is above 30Mav and short when 5Mav is below the 30. Before when we had a rocket we would build our channels on the 5 Min using points 1,2, and 3. The predicament i saw was that i was losing money made before during the point 3 pull back. I find that in terms of optimization that i should be getting out before the pullback of point 3. What i should be doing to optimize is get out when the 1 Min trend breaks or the fast line of the stochastics breaks 80. Whichever one is first. THe next point in optimizing the up trend is to get relong on the next 1min xover of the MACD and anticipate it turning into a rocket again. OF course, if our rezoom does not materialize, we get out for a wash. If it does rezoom, we either have trend continuation or consolidation. If price fails to break the previous high or the price doesn't reach the other side of the channel, we would have hopefully reversed and am ready for consolidation or the reversal.
This is only what i think Jack means by optimization of the trend. I am sure there are other things i am missing so feel free to critique.

jc

Reverse-reentry sounds very easy and the sensible thing to do but it's a bitch to pull off. It's subject to considerable second-guessing and will eat away the profits locked in through the early exit. It takes NO HESITATION and fast execution to stay on the right side.
From my limited experience, you're better off staying in if the trend is strong - Jack posted on this a while ago. The retrace will be limited in a strong trend thus not offering much reward.
As I got burned a number of times, I'd attempt a reverse only if there were a convergence of flaws (MACD x, rocket failure, vol rising against the trend).
It would be interesting to see if your 1m MACD x works - please keep us posted.

I will try to add the MAV-RSI to my chart - not sure if I can plot it in WatchPro .

vorzo
 
Vorzo,

A short while ago you mentioned about being more confident and closer to trading for real. Have you started yet, or is it still paper-trading? I ask, not to discredit the latter if that's the case, because I enjoy your posts and commentaries. But I would like to see your progress and insights when real dollars are on the line, even if it's only 1 contract. Good trading to you.
 
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