Yeah I should have clarified - if their approach was investing in or trading stocks from the long side, then beating the S&P would be a decent benchmark. Obviously if they are doing longs & shorts, or trading futures or forex, then it's different. In that case, a reasonable absolute return would be sufficient.
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The secret that all the Guru's are desperate to keep hiden.
- Thread starter Brandonf
- Start date
Yeah I should have clarified - if their approach was investing in or trading stocks from the long side, then beating the S&P would be a decent benchmark. Obviously if they are doing longs & shorts, or trading futures or forex, then it's different. In that case, a reasonable absolute return would be sufficient.
Quote from austinp:
where are the blotters in P&L thread showing proof
You consider that as proof ?
I have lost this year about $3000 net but I can post blotters of +$1000 days.
Cherry picking trading days is the secret.
Vendor standards of proof ?
You still stand by your claim that the spread is a no-cost factor ?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146473&highlight=spread
On topic now, I have kept a journal since my very first trade and what I can say is that I have become a less consistent loser , keep working hard.
Quote from Cutten:
Non sequitur - concluding that gurus who won't provide account statements are a waste of money does not imply that trying to learn by yourself solely by using internet message boards is a good idea.
It's important here to clarify the distinction between a guru/vendor and a mentor.
A mentor:
1) Is motivated primarily by the desire to teach other people to become profitable traders
2) Aligns his self-interest with that of the student (e.g. profit-split, or giving advice in return for grunt-work/research)
3) Is honest and fully discloses the reality of the situation - how likely the person is to succeed, the pitfalls, risks, and rewards.
4) Focuses mostly on teaching useful skills
5) Has a small number of proteges who he gives a lot of individual attention to
A guru/vendor:
1) Is motivated primarily by the desire to extract as much cash as possible from their customers
2) Does not align his self-interest with that of the customers, and in many cases has an arrangement where their interests are directly *opposed* (e.g. charging flat fees, subscriptions)
3) Does not fully disclose the reality of the situation.
4) Focuses mostly on sales and marketing (seminars, DVDs/CD-ROMs, gimmicks etc)
5) Has a large number of customers who he gives little individual attention to
In my opinion, a mentor is far superior to a guru/vendor.
There are also various other ways to learn, that are faster, cheaper, and better than solo off the internet:
1) Join a good trading firm, hedge fund, or financial institution that trades. Learn while getting paid, from proven profitable practitioners.
2) Work on an exchange floor as a clerk. Learn from the guy you clerk for, and other traders.
3) If you can't get either of those two, then find a profitable trader, and get mentored in return for doing grunt work, a profit split, or other situations where your interests and that of the mentor are aligned (i.e. they only make money if you do).
4) Join a reputable prop shop which offers a payout split and/or salary and does not churn or gouge you.
5) Do a lot of reading - stuff by and about proven profitable traders, not message board junk. Then experiment with small size, keep a trading diary, collaborate with other people online or in person, and teach yourself. This is slower and more expensive than the other options.
You could also choose to use a guru/vendor. In my opinion, and in the experience of many people who have been disappointed by them, in most cases all this will do is waste your time and money. Focus on finding a mentor, not a vendor.
This is excellent advice. I think that one of the best paths, in the past, to becoming a trader was to have gotten work on the floor of an exchange as a clerk/runner etc. Sadly those opportunities are becoming few and far between.
The promised course on profiting from the internet and creating your own Internet Business is just about ready to go live. You can find it here.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149703
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149703
Brandon,
Any progress on the Trade Journal information.
Any progress on the Trade Journal information.