The search for your system....

[Rams Fan]

I got taken to the shed yesterday about 25k per contract being too risky. Because most people here don't actually day trade, that is your answer.

If you know what you're doing, you shouldn't need but maybe $6K per ES for day trading so long as you stay out in front of news. I'd say $20K would be more than a safe size for the 3 contract trader.

$100K to trade 1 to 3 contracts is a waste of capital. Money should always be working, even if it is just sitting in t-bills.

More to life than JUST Day Trading. There's also Swing Trading and Position Trading of shares to make ones Life complete.

Yes indeed! Which is why putting $100K in an account just to day trade 1 to 3 emini's is a waste of capital. Put $15 to $20 K in the day trade account and use the other $80K to short Tesla.

 

[Rams Fan]

My issue is the traders here that use edges like time and account size as their primary edge to generate money and than come on here and try to pass off their knowledge to people looking to day trade.

I don't know if you're familiar with @virtusa but I am generally in agreement with what he has posted regarding margin for day trading ES, risk, etc.

 

[tony.m]

Daily win rate (positive days) over 95%

Why pay for a 95% win rate system when you can buy 100% win rate system for $10
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/100-winning-rate-of-10000-deals-in-100-days.371523/

 

[Bad_Badness]

Markets don't work that way, days when profits come easy (and big) are in the minority.
And the market makes you suffer the rest of time with losses (which hopefully you keep small).
However the market does do a good into fooling people that very high win rate systems exist.

You must be speaking from experience. Absolutely, one will suffer....

 

[Bad_Badness]

You don't become a trader by buying a "system". You become a trader by learning to trade and learning how to behave as a trader....and the cost can be heavy.

Thank Speedo. Yep that is the point. The point is not about system XYZ, per se, but the question is what are you willing to do to learn? What is the value of learning to trade? The process of learning is MORE important than most think. If you could spend a year and actually become profitable, consistently, what is that worth?

People CONSTANTLY are asking to get something on the cheap (time or money).

• A good ES indicator set because I will do some back testing? How absurd.
• Buy something on YouTube? Even more stupid.
• Fund me and I will share the profits based on a forum offer? Beyond dumb. (OK, I admit that was so stupid that thread died a lonely death.)

The point is also what are you willing to invest.

• Comments like why be over capitalized? If you are talking about making 10K per month, who really cares about being over capitalized by 40K? Evidently some people are.
• Spend 5K on hardware? Well some people think that is crazy and one should do it as cheap as possible.

Of course, I am not personally offering ANYTHING. Also I am not at all interested arguing about what is possible or not. That always decays into silliness with no real benefit except to reenforce counterproductive ego masturbation.

Thread is about done for me as I am SURE I will be a pariah to those with strong contrary opinion for posting "BS". Also, please feel free to IGNORE my posts. That totally works for me and is appreciated.

In any case,

Happy New year and may 2023 be a productive year for EVEYRONE.

 

[Bad_Badness]

You could not buy such a good working trading strategy. Only mediocre ones at best one can buy. So it does not make sense to look on the market. Just do your own research. I also highly doubt that one could find such a system you described above, because that Sharpe Ratio would be above 7. But I do not say that cannot exist, just it is incredible difficult to achieve this.

Right! The post was not about some fantastic system. And you point out only the crappy ones are for sale. And even worst ones are offered on the cheap.

 

[Bad_Badness]

actually offering advice to people who don't have that emotional or actual ability to use that edge.

I love that point. People do not have the emotional or ability but they think they can bypass that requirement.
Worse possible scenario is to give someone a super sharp knife (White steel hand forged knife, finish sharpened by the maker on a 100,000 grit river stone) and then observe they do not even know how to stand properly, hold it properly, let alone slice with it.

Yet people still want that THAT sharp knife as if the professional tool will somehow alleviate the need for skills that take years in the making.

 

[Concinnity]

The point is also what are you willing to invest.

• Comments like why be over capitalized? If you are talking about making 10K per month, who really cares about being over capitalized by 40K? Evidently some people are.

If you're making good money, sure who cares. I think Ram's point was just why not put your money to good use? As an extreme example. What's the point of having a 1 million dollar account and make $100.00 a day on it? Sure someone can do it and if they want to, it's their money but it's still not very efficient and doesn't really make sense.

If you were speaking more to my point. I was simple stating that it's easier to make $1,000.00 a day on a 500k account and much more difficult to make $1,000.00 a day on a 20k account. Again, no issues if someone wants to or can do that. My issues are when those same people try to tell others how to day trade with authority when the edges they are using are often the lowest hanging fruit and would disappear if they weren't able to hold, average down and etc.

 

[alistera]

It seems so many threads are looking for that shortcut to being able to trade.

So the question is how much would you pay in time and money.

Suppose the following.

• Day Trade: No overnight Positions
• 1-3 contracts of ES (SP500 Mini, forward contract)
• 100K account minimum.
• 1 year of trading.
• 1-2% per day.
• Largest daily loss 3%.
• Daily win rate (positive days) over 95%
• Semi-automated requires you to be in attendance every day you trade.
• Scalable to 500K.
• No guarantees of being profitable, but 1 year of performance data to examine.
• Comms run about 10% of daily PL.
• 5K in hardware, 2K in software, 200/mo in connection fees.
• Secondary Account with 50K as backup.

Note the poll has choice that some would call absurd choices. But consider that old saw about "90% fail". And consider what answers 90% will select.

I'll put forth my answers are: Zero and 150%. And "NO" I am not offering this to any person. This is just something to consider that might get you set in the right direction faster than posting for "edges" ad nauseum.

It's nice to see people can still make jokes, I use this system daily except you have some glaring problems because, well everyone is 'cheap' and in their ultimate stupidity assume 'how hard can it be'.

1) No guarantees of being profitable, but 1 year of performance data to examine.
They will tell you to get lost because it's your problem to trust the system, not theirs, given all your prerequisites you need the returns more than they need the fees, I know because they told people exactly that.

2) Comms run about 10% of daily PL.
Again, the jokes run rampant here, 20%/50%/80% commissions depending on returns profiles, at 1-2% per day that's 150-200%pa, that is at 5&50 and all numbers have to reconcile to that, end of story.

3) 5K in hardware, 2K in software, 200/mo in connection fees.
Sure per month to run the algos to support generating returns at the level of a Sovereign nation to replace the plebeians, but you were talking about one-off fees.

You know the problem with people who are poor, they always need the world to crack a nut which is where your beyond obscene list comes from, someone asked a question about how to invest with $150k in the bank, that is 7-10%pa but they wanted more, never understanding trying to target 15-20%pa they ran the risk of haircuts down to 3-5%pa because that needs $1mil net worth, and anyone taking on $150k at a level either doesn't have a clue what they are doing, or they have full automation reducing overhead costs by 10x with the R&D not being recovered by the pathetic numbers in your list.

I know all this because I had the pleasure of telling someone to figure it out themselves after having generated 50% return on capital via Futures Indexes in 3mths to pre-launch in to a hedge fund using the exact same list you describe, I can promise you one thing though, it did not cost 10% commissions, nor $2k fees nor $200 per month.

Anyone know of any forums where there are less cheap and poor people floating around, they have no concept of hard work and return on investment, I have plenty of time, wonders of having access to automation, used Quora but they also became saturated with the 'fake it to make it crowd', it's a pandemic

 

[endless]

You could not buy such a good working trading strategy.

Eh, i'm selling, as a service actually. Nobody wants to buy or expects a kidney in escrow as a collateral. Conflict of interest in an 80% failure industry. It's a hard sell.