The Science of Technical Analysis

*sigh*

You trade the market, not the analysis. Any analysis is only a tool to extract an aspect of the market.

Asking whether TA works is like asking, "Does the market trend?" with a nuance of "Is the market trending?"

It works when the particular "aspect" is existing in the market. It doesn't work when it's not existing.

Though, it does not mean that the aspect does not happen.

Useless thread.
 
Quote from cd23:

2Q's and a request for comments.

Thank you for OP'ing the thread.

Q1 The criteria is using the Scientific Method to derive the TA elements and to derive their combined application in the TA system. QED.

Q2. The listed systems use the wrong mathematics. Since they do not provide the elements in Q1, they are unable to function to perform in a suitable way. The alternative is to use the correct math application and get the job done. QED.

Connors is a good guy in what he does. For a classic example See chapter 6 of Conners and Hayward. Take the trouble, however, to fix it so it has a neutral bias. As you see it it only works, unfortunatley, with a long bias.

Let me step up another level in my comments. There is no way that inductive assessments can have any value and especially have any value for an inductively derived indicator. This is called compounding in some forms of treatment.

At some point in time every trader has to look in the mirror and see "what the fuck am I doing?" facing him". It is a crude and terse moment where the correct answer is to probably not look in mirrors anymore and just keep hoping. There are some really famous hopers out there. But most hopers have completed their transition through the trading industry by going out the other side.

As a hoper, you may want to take a moment and look in the mirror. Rcanfiel looks at stat tests instead of looking in the mirror. He hopes someday to find something somewhere that will pass his stat criteria and after that he will be faked out in his shorts by his induction errors.

Here is the straight poop on things. There is no value in considering anything but the PRESENT in trading. So the only value your list of elements have is in displaying raw data in a convenient form. There are other needs besides the display. Trading is done in markets in ways that are much faster than humans do trading. Humans extend themselves with tools. Notice that the items on your list do not have human extension tools, especially with regard to improving the conscious sensory rate. People are "lagging indicators" it turns out.

So you read that RSI..... and you invent RSI's........ the mag will have articles every month by people who are noted for their work to various extents. So what.

See why RSI does not speed up your sensory process and help you not lag the markets as a human operating system. the articles do not help either.

It is not an OODA thing either.

The science of TA deals with all of these problems. Maybe the thread will turn to using science as it relates to extending the human sensory process and eliminates the "lagging" characteristics of human beings as they examine the displays depicted by the providers on your list.

cd23, Thanks for the answer! :)

Can you please explain as to what did you mean by the following "It is not an OODA thing either."? Thanks!
 
Technical Analysis and Science are as different as Science and Scientology! As Scientology TA is built to please Hollywood like people who are hungry for mysticism!
 
Quote from TraderSystem:

Everyone says that Technical analysis not valid, silly tool. In this thread let us discuss a scientific view of the subject.

Please, no off-point posts. Please just stick to facts of different Technical Methods. Please, just simply discuss about Technical methods.
The main value of TA is to separate the price signal (what's important) from the price noise (what's not). The trick is either to find the small segment of TA that actually does that, or to figure out your own method. Almost nobody who actually discovers usable TA is going to publicly disclose it. Past disclosed methods like OBV and Elliot Waves that worked have lost their power due to public disclosure. So don't count on any future TA discoverers repeating the mistakes of past TA altruists.
 
Quote from MAESTRO:

Technical Analysis and Science are as different as Science and Scientology! As Scientology TA is built to please Hollywood like people who are hungry for mysticism!

Wow!

MAESTRO, I respect what you have accomplished inside of your own environment and the successes you enjoy from it but that analogy is just wrong. You are the expert in your world but that doesn't make you even remotely an expert or familiar with areas you have no point of reference to.

Scientology was the creation of a sick mind. I can attest to that from spending a good deal of time around Clearwater, Florida and seeing the transition of that organization over the years. Comparing that to technical analysis is no where near relevant.

I will agree with you that a majority of the technical analysis, now, that is widely used is worthless but that in no way makes all of it worthless. You have not tested or researched how all fractal chart options can be used inside specific charting environments, just to name a single aspect of newer analysis.

To make a blanket statement condemning that which you are not specifically experienced in is irresponsible.
 
Quote from overtooled:

most here are not scientists. you are asking non-scientists to comment on the science.. :confused:

at best, the only thing you can expect from this crowd is experience.. not science. at best. you've asked the wrong Q

Maybe you are right. But, scientific view does not mean only scientists can explain. Science is facts and not beliefs, so experience is what you have learnt and experienced, so it is a science in a way. But, you are right, I should have asked, “Let us share the experiences on Technical Analysis”. Thanks for pointing that out. :)
 
Quote from condorll:

Define "Everyone" please.

I need to quantify how I made 14% on my account in the past 3 weeks using Technical analysis.

You are right; I think I should have used the term majority of people, as at that time of starting the thread, I realized that many people were against Technical analysis. Thanks for pointing that out. :)
 
cd23, you are one heavy guy but I gotta say, you're right on cue here. Good post!

Quote from cd23:

The science of Technical Analysis (TA) involves the normal five step process of the Scientific Method (SM)

To hypothesize about TA takes a mind that is able to use the SM properly. This means that probability is not involved because probability is not part of the SM.

The hypothesis made is usually modified repeatedly as the scientist narrows the chase to the theorem or theory he is seeking.

I liked the way the SM resolved the aspects of my use of TA in trading.

I focussed primarily on the null hypothesis by necessity and I made sure I handled the full spectrum under consideration. This, for me meant disproving the null hypothesis for all cases.

By moving from probabilistic mathematics out of necessity, I found I had a real and comprehensive methodology that did not contain the usual traps that are reported out by most persons who are examining aspects of TA without the benefits of the SM.

Not everyone is trained in SM. Consider, for example, a person with an MS in CS. There are two S's and still that does not mean that the person has had any time spent studying the application of the SM in or out of the fields of science to which the SM normally applies.

Broadening the application of the scientific method has been done and it is the logical this to do whenever possible. It is not, however to be done haphazardly or just pragmatically in a superficial manner.

Saying "TA doesn't work " we all know is not a hypothesis nor is it the null hypothesis for the consideration of TA. It is easy to test this statement, presumably by finding an exception but usually the exception is just a time bomb waiting to go off so to speak, scientifically speaking. It is not a probabilistic issue when the chips are down and in the final analysis. This is just a superficial kind of approach that would prove nothing with respect to a theory or theorem set.

An earnest effort to become informed about TA is important for anyone since its application may be possible for them in trading. Applying TA to trading is not a possibility for many people as they have told us and told us frequently.

For those where it is not possible to use it, their views are very important since they serve as examples of what can happen to anyone and for the variety of reasons they state. This failure list is a list of the traps a person must avoid when applying the SM or any reasoning to the application of TA. Getting trapped by personal mental processes is very possible as we see by looking around us and in our personal journals of our work in process.

I surveyed TA to find the sources of TA where the created TA as a theorem or theory was derived in a manner that involved the SM. If felt that this was logical and orderly and that it might be possible to build a heirarchy or body of information that was rational and logic. I was amply rewarded.

I also used my training to hypothesize and conduct SM experiments. Experimentation is not usually conclusive but it has a powerful value to the person doing the work.

It is similar to problem solving (PS). PS is common because of its pragmatic reach and applications. Most problems are not solved easily. They would not be problems were it ieasy to solve them. Most people never do have the opportunity tosolve problems in the course of their work. Those that do PS often only achieve partial solutions, or to put it another way, they change the original problem from one thing to another that does lend itself to further work.

Applying science to TA by the use of the SM, for me, led to a series of steps where the hypothesis gradually changed to give me a focus on the kernel of the opportunity that TA represents. As I resolved each small aspect that appeared to be processable, these aspects helped form the body of elements that I now have that are integrated.

Dealing with TA scientifically is one big, complex and immense job.

the people who worked to create TA where largely inspired by two themes: they wanted useful tools or they wanted a product or service that had market value. I regard Welles Wilder as in the pormer group and a person like Oliver Velez as being slanted more towards the latter group.

Modelling is not usually scientific it turns out It is more oriented to the application of scientific principles (not theory or theorems) to pragmatic demands. Securitization of debt instruments is an axample that is unworkable scientifically as we all see. the bomb is now going off as we know.

Development follows modelling and it is even more remote from science. It is computer "science" a bucket that was just dropped into the academic production line when computers were invented. It is a plumbing degree for hardware plumbers to make software for the hardware to operate. Coding has no relationship to the SM. Coding makes hardware work.

Maybe this thread will deal with creating TA using the SM. That would be a very profitable kind of work for either of the two themes.

It is one heck of a trip to go through the disciplined effort to use the SM to come to a body of TA that is comprehensive and has no time bomb associated with it. The forks in the road turn out to be the less travelled ones.
 
Quote from MandelbrotSet:

The reason he says this is that a lot of what happens in the market actually is random.

You can't apply a "real world" scientific method to it, because in the world of trading:

1. Gravity will change, and people can float.
2. The speed of light will slow to a crawl.
3. The speed at which something falls can slow down, or speed up as the case may be.
4. You could cross the street in one town and end up in the next one by the time you reach the end of the curb.

All trading is probalistic, and the best you can do is try to maintain your consistency in your setups, manage risk (take no prisoners on this one) and trader heavier size when you percieve the greater opportunity ... hey, trading sounds like gambling, which to some degree, IT IS.

Good trading.

Nice post.
I can see the human side pierce though occasionally which is a good thing.
 
So how many times do we have to repeat the same conclusion.

Though, I'll bite...

In trading, there is very little observable constancy to base on, for running scientific methods.
 
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