The sad truth about trading is

[limitdown]

Quote from talontrading:

actually... to a trader a "piker" is a trader who has no clue what they're doing. as in "did you see that piker sell up there? what a moron!" or maybe when you're trading really badly on a day... "oh sh*t, i can't believe i'm so stupid. how can i be such a piker?"

so... yeah it's not a great name!

thanks for explaining that,

I wasn't sure how to break it to him otherwise....


really, even from the floor on the exchange, that's not a good term....

 

[Index piker]

Quote from limitdown:

thanks for explaining that,

I wasn't sure how to break it to him otherwise....


really, even from the floor on the exchange, that's not a good term....

Get over it already, previously 'I explained it on pg4.

Besides I'll probably outperform 95% of the traders on this site in the next 5-7 yrs anyway.

 

[PranKsterJack]

Quote from catholic_trader:

I can tell you that I know basically next to nothing about trading and still made over $3K this week (trading only in the AM) by following the real-time exit and entry signals of a visual-spatial, logico-mathematical, intrapersonal genius

I did that one time, trading openeing gaps
Lost 4K on the exact same setups the next mont

 

[rwk]

Quote from Index piker:
. . . you don't have magical skills that your competitors don't have also . . . They on average do not consistently outperform their market and let's be honest neither do you.

. . . If you are truly generating consistent alpha year in and year out beating the pro's why are you not joining their ranks?

I think you have created a bit of a straw-man argument here. You don't know how many ETers consistently outperform their closest index -- it could be more than you think.

You're also confusing successful trading with managing other people's money. Money management a different business entirely requiring different skills. There are perfectly valid reasons why a successful trader might not want to manage other people's money.

 

[Swan Noir]

Don't wait a year to come back and tell us how that is working out for you. Come back in 90 days. He may be a true genuis AT THIS (At This is all that counts) but the odds are many thousands to one against that.

BTW, is it your religion that defines you as a trader or does the small c in catholic indicate the universal nature of your trading?

Quote from catholic_trader:

I can tell you that I know basically next to nothing about trading and still made over $3K this week (trading only in the AM) by following the real-time exit and entry signals of a visual-spatial, logico-mathematical, intrapersonal genius

 

[Index piker]

Quote from rwk:

I think you have created a bit of a straw-man argument here. You don't know how many ETers consistently outperform their closest index -- it could be more than you think.

You're also confusing successful trading with managing other people's money. Money management a different business entirely requiring different skills. There are perfectly valid reasons why a successful trader might not want to manage other people's money.

Uh, in a word No.
I've made no straw-man argument, you are just assuming I've made a false assumption concerning ETers returns.

Perhaps , but most likely it ranges somewhere from slim to none long term against a comparable passive portfolio.

 

[Barth Vader]

Quote from talontrading:

Well said. And you can't overemphasize that this is a performance discipline like being a top notch professional athlete... it's possible to learn most of what you need to be successful but in the end it comes down to a handful of very small seemingly insignificant things that have to be done right every time. People misunderstand and think trading is an intellectual pursuit and they are doing to succeed because they are smart. It's really not about that... it's far more about psychology and discipline.

I have seen some incredibly smart people fail as traders because they just weren't cut out for it, and I know lots of guys who really aren't the brightest bulbs in the box who make comfortable 6 figure incomes year after year.

Good post indexer.

I agree with your statement and the referenced statement from indexer, however, index piker has also found a way that works for him/her.

It is my opinion that success in trading requires a tool bag.
In it are tools that work for a specific task [market condition].
Learning what tool [technique] to pull out of the bag for a given task [market condition] requires a degree from the school of hard knocks. It is hard to cut a round hole in a piece of wood with a screwdriver. A screwdriver is important and useful, but a router would be the preferred tool for the previously mentioned task.

Most people run out of money, desire or discipline well before graduation.

 

[Dustin]

Quote from Index piker:

I certainly lose NO sleep over my investments and have been quite profitable since instituting my plan late last year.

I'm surprised nobody picked up on this.

 

[lindq]

Quote from Index piker:

There is NO question as to the superiority of passive investing as a whole compared to active investing.
general.

That statement is absolutely incorrect and only demonstrates your ignorance of trading and investing in general.

So you've managed to make some money over the past year, and now you're an expert in passive investing and just thought you'd drop by and let everyone here know they're wasting their time?

I've solidly beat the S&P for 6 years straight as an active trader, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for my accounts with passive, diversified investments.

You are a classic case of confusing brains with a bull market.

I suggest you chalk up your 12 months of gains as your luck of getting into a bull market run, and come back here in 3-5 years and report your results. Passive investing results over 12 months mean absolutely nothing. In 90 days you may well be sucking red ink. And a lot of it.

In the meantime, there is a website that is far more appropriate to your general approach and your lack of experience.

www.fool.com

 

[talontrading]

When I was a struggling trader, I used to believe what you wrote here, but the fact is you're wrong. The pyschological demands of trading are EXTREME... I really used to think it's as simple as telling someone where to buy and sell and then they do it and make money, but that is just not true.

I also taught a few people and had dramatically different results... from one of them becoming a professional and making a ton of money to one of them completely leaving the business to a few of them still struggling 4 years after the experiment. the difference was not in how or what they were taught, which was very similar and i actually spent more time and energy on the ones who "failed" than the one who is still making a lot of money. looking back, the real difference is discipline. i also see that on trading desks... the guys who make it and the guys who don't... it's discipline and focus not analytical prowess that makes a winner.

i will post a simple system with a winning edge later in the day.. something i've used for years profitably... and then i'd challenge readers on this board to apply it CONSISTENTLY for a year and come back and tell us what your results have been. i know from past experiments like this, not one person will do that.

Quote from failed_trad3r:

If the system is good you don't need the discipline. You just execute the system. Discipline and psychology is overrated.