The Right of Return

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Funny watching you knee jerk...

There is no such thing as dual loyalty, when being loyal to one object of affection harms the other object of object of affection...

Why are there is a disproportionate number of jewish politicians?

Apart from a select few politicians like Stephen Forbes when he ran for president, money and power can and does generally does buy elections...

This entire focus of yours on the achievements of Jews in America is a red herring, as success in America is not determined culturally by wisdom, kindness, honesty, forgiveness, tolerance, etc.

Achievement is determined in America by how much money and power people have, not what kind of person they truly are.

Donald Trump is a complete ass of a human being who has power, money, and adulation by the masses who want to be like him relative to his level of wealth, fame, and power.

Quote from dddooo:

Jesus H. Christ, accusing the jews of dual loyalty is yet another all too typical antisemitic cliche. Please keep posting Z10, you're obviously on a roll this morning and I will bookmark this thread for future references. Do you seriously expect to keep spewing every antisemitic slander in the book and get away with claiming that you're not antisemitic?

And as I said before there is a disproportionate number of jews among Americans with higher education, PhDs, University Professors, Nobel Prize laureates, successful businessmen, entrepreneurs, innovators etc. So why is it so surprising that there is a disproportionate number of jewish politicians (and as Pabst rightly points out overwhelmingly liberal ones)?

Of course accusing the jews of dual loyalty and bashing them for outperforming other religious and ethnic groups in a country that celebrates success is not antisemitism, at least according to you and David Duke, right?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

"But Z10 and you are using this fact to accuse the jews of some kind of malicious intent and dual loyalty and this is the part that I resent."

Wrong as usual.

It is the non representative nature of a disproportionate number of people in power in a representative democracy that is troubling, especially when they use that power to the benefit of another country and not to the benefit of most Americans.

I have mentioned 5 Catholics on the bench of the high court, I have problem with that as it is too much power in the hands of a few who are of the same religious background and stand on abortion, etc.

Any minority group who has an agenda that is about their "own" over America first is a problem when they gain power in media, politics, law, etc.

You are such a duplicitous unprincipled fuck. If Muslims were in power in America to the same degree Jews are in power in America, and if they were using that power to influence Americans to be anti Israel, you would raise holy hell...

Quote from dddooo:

It's not just about being smart, jews tend to be more hard-working, dedicated, diligent, open-minded and have better work ethics. These qualities are not unique to the Jews btw and are shared by the Japanese, Chinese and some other cultures. No jewish superiority here, just different culture, upbringing and traditions.

More to the point, the jews do have representation disproportionate to the jewish population and no one disputes that. But Z10 and you are using this fact to accuse the jews of some kind of malicious intent and dual loyalty and this is the part that I resent. Moreover even if the number of jews in the US government is disproportionately high, they are still a significant minority in both the Senate and the Congress. Claiming that they have taken over those institutions, dictate american policies and dupe the public just because they constitute 10-20% (vs 2%) of those institutions is simply absurd as it does not explain why the remaining 80-90% would oblige.

Let alone the fact that there are virtually no jewish republicans and yet the republican party is a more staunch supporter of Israel than the Dems. How does Z10s jewish conspiracy explain this fact?

 

[dddooo]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I have mentioned 5 Catholics on the bench of the high court, I have problem with that as it is too much power in the hands of a few who are of the same religious background and stand on abortion, etc.

Yeah, I suppose we need to implement quotas to satisfy your idea of "proportionate" representation. You're actually the one who has a problem with the democratic process as you reject or have issues with democratically elected or appointed individuals based purely on their ethnicity or religion. This is truly despicable. Ironically jewish politicians tend to be liberal, you are a liberal too and yet your hatred of the jews and Israel eclipse your other political views.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

"This is truly despicable."

Spare me your self absorbed self righteous faux outrage...Geez.

You are deeply disturbed, deeply.

I don't hate anyone. I dislike what people doodoodoo....

I don't have a problem with the democratic process, but when money and power can win you an election, that is not genuinely a democratic process....especially if the politicians are not acting in the best interest of Americans.

The politicians are supposed to represent the the American people as a whole, not some foreign country's best interests...

Jewish politicians are generally secular in nature, and they support secular causes, of which Zionism is one cause.

Nothing is wrong with Zionism per say, as far as a secular movement goes, but it is presented as some Holy movement somehow related to the Holy lands, which it is not. It is a political agenda, and doesn't care about the blow-back to Americans...

Americans are slowly waking up to the reality of the price of Zionism and what it really is, and I don't think future generations here at home will be putting up with it here or sponsoring it...

Yes, home, America...

Quote from dddooo:

Yeah, I suppose we need to implement quotas to satisfy your idea of "proportionate" representation. You're actually the one who has a problem with the democratic process as you reject or have issues with democratically elected or appointed individuals based purely on their ethnicity or religion. This is truly despicable. Ironically jewish politicians tend to be liberal, you are a liberal too and yet your hatred of the jews and Israel eclipse your other political views.

 

[jem]

dddoo I was being as diplomatic as possible. Please show me where I maligned jews with malicious intent.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from jem:

dddoo I was being as diplomatic as possible. Please show me where I maligned jews with malicious intent.

We do agree that the jews are disproportionately represented in all influential circles of society but I resent the idea that they use their influence or that their influence is even strong enough to distort public opinion, brainwash the entire country and promote a "Zionist" or any other agenda. I frankly find the idea that the american public supports Israel because 10 Senators and 30 Congressmen are jewish completely absurd and Z10 did not even try to defend it (he did not attempt to refute any other of my points either).

You did not accuse the Jews of malicious intent outright but I thought that was the implication of some parts of your post. I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood your views.

 

[dddooo]

BTW Z10, here is an interesting tidbit about your "peaceful", "progressive" and "open-minded" Haredi friends:

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

...if a truly Orthodox Jew came onto this forum and started to have a discussion with you about Israel's aggressive and violent policies

J'lem police brace for haredi violence

Jerusalem police were preparing for violence at a massive haredi protest Sunday against the upcoming gay parade in the city.

The Sunday evening protest, expected to attract tens of thousands of haredim...Haredi activists have said that the demonstration, which is being organized by the extremist anti-Zionist Eda Haredit group, is likely to turn violent.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...81813048245&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Jeez Z10, your rhetoric resembles that of David Duke, you side with the ugliest, most backward and fanatical parts of jewish and muslim societies, you quote, support and defend people and organizations who stand against everything you claim to stand for. How did you sink so low so fast?

 

[2cents]

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Quote from 2cents:

good, you have your own little lawless system whereby the strongest dictates the terms, and the weakest blows up your metropolitan areas... fine by me... have fun america

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Quote from dddooo:

As opposed to your legal system in which 100 muslim counties want to dictate one little Israel the terms of its national suicide, right? Or in which everyone criticizes the situation in Gaza or Sudan but no one is willing to offer troops or move a finger to alleviate the suffering of innocent civilians. Anyway even though your conclusion does not follow from my post, in real life it's always been the case and it will always be. As I unsuccessfully tried to explain to Z10 strong does not necessarily mean wrong and underdogs are not necessarily good guys and freedom fighters. The situation in Gaza proves it beyond the shadow of doubt.

for avoidance of doubt, i believe Israelis have a right to have their own country
Given this thread in which you promote the right of return of 6 mln arabs to Israel this assurance rings hollow.

my "conclusion" as you say, follows from your previous post entirely...

so now we have "100 muslim countries"? what next to justify america's and israel's illegal acts, any more cheap words?

regardless, what america and the ex-colonial powers did was perfectly unjust towards the locals in particular, and the arabs in general... what will always be is that people who have been wronged will, at a minimum, get even in some way if no proper legal recourse is available... and they will be helped as appropriate by people who don't believe bullies should be allowed to have their way, ever...

as for good guys, good guys don't do nor provide financing to people who do this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_committed_during_the_1948_Arab-Israeli_war
http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/arab-israeli-war.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20040524234337/http://en.falastiny.net/books/massacres/massacres1.htm


as for the right of return, this was the opening post fyi:

Quote from 2cents:

time passes but the issues remain... any dispassionate views anyone?

seems to me there are ways israel could implement a right of return / fair buy out trade for instance, in a way which takes into account understandable Israeli demographic concerns, and puts an end to this disgrace and grave humanitarian problem of palestinian refugee camps

...continued

any questions dumbo?

 

[2cents]

Quote from dddooo:

It's not just about being smart, jews tend to be more hard-working, dedicated, diligent, open-minded and have better work ethics. These qualities are not unique to the Jews btw and are shared by the Japanese, Chinese and some other cultures. No jewish superiority here, just different culture, upbringing and traditions.

off-topic totally but sthg i can agree with... a good book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Francis-Fukuyama/dp/0029109760 (not about jews in particular)

 

[dddooo]

Quote from 2cents:

as for good guys, good guys don't do nor provide financing to people who do this

Clearly you support the good guys, right?

"The first arab sponsored terrorist attack upon Jews occurred in 1920, long before the establishment of Israel and long before there were any so-called palestinians. In 1929 arab mobs massacred over 100 Jews, 67 of them in 1929 Hebron massacre alone, an ancient community where Jews lived among arabs peacefully for centuries. Many of the corpses were mutilated by arabs."

Year Number killed
1920 9
1921 24
1922 5
1923 0
1924 4
1925 1
1926 1
1927 1
1928 0
1929 119

1930 0
1931 2
1932 4
1933 0
1934 0
1935 1
1936 44
1937 10
1938 94
1939 26

1940 137
1941 14
1942 4
1943 1
1944 3
1945 1
1946 28
1947 152
1948 379
1949 37

1950 52
1951 41
1952 40
1953 46
1954 41
1955 30
1956 53
1957 19
1958 15
1959 10

http://lindasog.com/public/terrorvictims.htm

And as we all know that was just the beginning. It's also quite obvious who starts each cycle of violence in the region, isn't it?