What I am pointing out is that your position is that of a secular political person who is not making an argument from a religious foundation or genuine religious traditions.
The point is that the rise of secularism in people of a Jewish heritage has not produced a peaceful situation, nor is there really any viable plan for peace.
What I observe is that we have a group of contentious people who wield disproportionate power and influence in American politics to an enormous degree relative to any concept of truly representative democracy, who claim to have some right to the Holy lands, when in fact they have deviated from the Holy scriptures by practicing intellectual secular thinking.
I have said previously, let those who want a Jewish secular state settle somewhere else, say in Montana. Let them practice their way of life, their secular intellectual thought, but for them to proclaim they have a right to the Holy lands on the basis of a past history of Orthodox Judaism, or that they need to live in some Holy land to practice their religion, when they are not following the Holy scriptures and teaching, is a lie and an act of duplicity.
I firmly believe the majority of American people have been duped into supporting the Zionist movement (let's not confuse Judaism with Zionism---they are clearly not the same) which has cause unnecessary blow-back on Americans.
I believe if the America public were properly informed as to what is really going on, things would change dramatically, but it would take a media willing to tell the entire story, not a one sided Zionist driven aspect of it.
"Frankly I am not sure what point you're trying to make. While the overwhelming majority of the world's Jews are secular and most orthodox jews don't see a contradiction between Israel and Judaism, there indeed exist a few tiny sects of ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that Zionism (i.e. the existence of Israel) contradicts the teaching of Judaism. So what, who the fuck cares?"
The American way has been to care about the minority position.
I believe you are purposely trying to minimize the number of Orthodox Jews who oppose Zionism.
See, you don't deal with the minority argument, you illogically and irrationally dismiss the minority argument...simply on the basis of its minority position, because you can't make a solid case against that position!
Truth is generally a minority position in the beginning...
"their medieval religious views to begin with."
Anyone who ever had any doubts about your real point of view, can read the above for clarification.
You support violence of any kind as long as it serves your purpose, and you have the audacity to call those who are praying for peace and good will as "medieval."
You are just another common fanatic, the flip side of the coin of the fanatic Muslim crazies...
Quote from dddooo:
Frankly I am not sure what point you're trying to make. While the overwhelming majority of the world's Jews are secular and most orthodox jews don't see a contradiction between Israel and Judaism, there indeed exist a few tiny sects of ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that Zionism (i.e. the existence of Israel) contradicts the teaching of Judaism. So what, who the fuck cares?
The state of Israel (unlike the UK for example) does not even have an official religion, it was not created to promote Judaism in the first place so even if the contradiction was real it is totally irrelevant. Israel was created as a homeland for all Jews (religious, secular, conservative, progressive, atheists, jews for Jesus, jews for Buddah, jews from Europe, Arab countries, Africa). If some small number of jews believe Israel's existence contradicts their interpretation of the Torah - who gives a flying fuck, Israel was not established to accommodate their medieval religious views to begin with.
