The rich are waging class warfare on the poor

[failed_trad3r]

Quote from Mercor:

The way the rich steal from the poor:

Invent, design, finance, manufacturer, and market products that people want to buy.....thats all.

You forgot offshoring jobs and worshipping the devil

Quote from MKTrader:

So the gov't forcing one person to give a little less money in income taxes (while "the poor" continue to pay nothing) = theft from the poor? Absurd. People are really getting brainwashed.

Once again, Mencken's definition of a demagogue = Obama to the core: "one who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

As for Warren Buffett's secretary paying a higher tax rate than he does, I'm not for that either. The whole system--with all its loopholes, special favors and social engineering attempts--has its own absurd results. I'm for scrapping the whole thing and replacing it with some type of flat tax. But it's equally absurd that people who don't work at all can game the system and live better than lower-middle class folk who work their tails off. Also, the Warren Buffett thing is kind of a red herring--he isn't the typical rich guy. The small business owner who makes $220K/year pays a lot more taxes than his secretrary.

No.. the problem lies in the fact that the Bush tax cuts were made with the promise of jobs. Where are the jobs? The repubs believe cutting taxes will increase jobs. I doubt it. Just look at Buffet. If you give Buffet 1 million more dollars, what will he do with it? Hire people? Or just buy stocks. What are Buffett's expenditures? And you will see that his expenditures are not that different from a guy with only 1 million dollars. In that sense a flat tax is idiotic and a progressive tax is much more desirable.

Just look at the graph I posted. Even with a progressive tax, rich quadrupled their income by 400% in 40 years. Progressive tax is not the problem.

But I hear ya. A progressive tax is "not fair". Rich earned their money. But sometimes you have to ignore principle and do what works. Look at communism. In principle, you got a good idea. But it just doesn't work. Look at the number of countries with flat tax. There are only 20 out of 160. That 15%. Do you think 85% of the world are evil leftists liberals? Or...maybe progressive tax works better than flat tax??
Here's another example
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shawn-lawrence-otto/rick-perry-abstinence_b_904115.html
Abstinence works.. but yet it doesn't.

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

The reason for incomes falling is that the rich are working harder and the poor are getting lazier. Have you seen kids today how lazy they are? They only want to play video games, look at porn and go get high. This is why the income gap is spreading.

Seems like most of these lazy poor are Conservatives.

 

[joneog]

Quote from logic_man:

The obvious solution is to split the country into two or more separate sovereign countries...

I believe that was tried once, didn't end well.

That said, the country was formed by seceding; it's funny how we excoriate secession talk in one breath and yammer about the right of self-determination in the other.

 

[failed_trad3r]

Tax Cuts for the Middle Class and Poor STIMULATE The Economy, But Tax Cuts for the Wealthy HURT The Economy


Extreme conservatives push for tax cuts ... but just for the wealthy.

Extreme liberals are against all tax cuts, believing that we need higher taxes to pay for government programs ... and that taxes somehow won't create any drag on the economy.

Both extremes are wrong.

In fact, tax cuts for the middle class and poor stimulate the economy, but tax cuts for the wealthy hurt the economy.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/its-simple-tax-cuts-for-middle-class.html

This isn't complicated. Rampant inequality largely caused the Great Depression and the current economic crisis (and see this). Cutting taxes on the middle and lower classes reduces inequality and stimulates the consumer economy. But cutting taxes for the wealthy reduces aggregate consumer demand.

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from burn8:

You actually did say that they were stealing from the poor.

-burn8

I said any "stealing" was gov't enabled. Only the biggest, most gov't-connected players can do that by supporting laws and regulations that push out competition. I refuted the claim that lowering taxes was stealing from anyone.

Really, it's just Reading Comprehension 101 stuff.

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from joneog:

I believe that was tried once, didn't end well.

That said, the country was formed by seceding; it's funny how we excoriate secession talk in one breath and yammer about the right of self-determination in the other.

If at first you don't secede, try, try again!

 

[bone]

Quote from failed_trad3r:

Tax Cuts for the Middle Class and Poor STIMULATE The Economy, But Tax Cuts for the Wealthy HURT The Economy

47 % of US Adults pay no Federal Income Tax - that is an IRS published fact. So whom are you referring to ?

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from failed_trad3r:

No.. the problem lies in the fact that the Bush tax cuts were made with the promise of jobs. Where are the jobs? . [/B]

Let's play fair. The one who REALLY went out of his way promising jobs was Obama with his record-breaking Spedulous. Remember, the unemployment rate would never go above 8%? Instead, it's remained naggingly above 8% since that time.

With Bush, the main problems were all the spending--two wars, Medicare Part D (what a convervative idea, George!), etc. We have no way of knowing what the tax cuts would've done ceteris paribus.

 

[StarDust9182]

MK Trader:

Alberta has a flat tax and it works well. Alberta ships tons of money to support many provinces (It was not always so - they hit the wall in debt once). When the socalists heard about it, they did the following:

Imported union members from BC to protest because the workers on strike in Alberta weren't vocal enough

Denounced every change in healthcare costs government made as against the principles of healthcare and destroying Alberta.

Came on the radio and announced that Alberta should tax their people more so that they could tax their own more. Too many people were moving into Alberta from higher tax provinces. When it was pointed out that we didn't have a use for the money that a provincial sales tax would add, they said take it anyways so we can raise our own taxes to compete.

etc. etc.

The sad fact is, that there will never be enough money for socialism and they are not interested in negotiating the facts.

Don't get me wrong. I think that there is nothing wrong with giving temporary support to those who need it through bad luck, but I don't know of a way to shut off the taps once they are opened. The needs grow exponentially as people become dependent on the state. There seems to be no plan to return them to stand on their own feet again.

It is problem that I have spent a lot of time thinking about.

 

[bone]

Flat tax, no deductions.