The "Rapture"

Quote from Misthos:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
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Let me guess peil - your christianity is the "right interpretation" and Hitler's was the "wrong interpretation."

How about this: both "interpretations" are based on mythology? And therefore - worthless.
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Let us explore the concept of "interpretations" a little farther.
I most heartily agree that when man begins to "interpret", as defined by "....to explain the meaning of...." the Word of G-D, division and indeed "religion" itself is the by-product. The Word of G-D, as I believe it is contained in Scripture, cannot be "interpretated", it is to be believed and obeyed or discarded and scorned, nothing more.

The subject of your comments, Mr. Hitler, who you are using as an example of a follower of Christ, would have done well to cleave to the words and commands of his Redeemer, and failing that, to have followed the good example of his fellow countrymen and fellow followers of Christ, Zacharias Ursinus and Caspar Olevianus, as contained in the "Heidelberg Catechism [1576 A.D.]". Specifically questions 105, 106 and 107, which "interpret" the sixth commandment "..Thou shall not kill....":

105. Q. What does God require in the sixth commandment ?
A. I am not to dishonour, hate, injure, or kill my neighbor by thoughts, words, or gestures, and much less by deeds, whether personally or through another; [1] rather, I am to put away all desire of revenge, [2] Moreover, I am not to harm or recklessly endanger myself, [3] Therefore, also, the government bears the sword to prevent murder.

106. Q. But does this commandment speak only of killing ?

A. By forbidding murder God teaches us that He hates the root of murder, such as envy, hatred, anger, and desire of revenge, [1] and that He regards all these as murder,

107. Q. Is it enough, then, that we do not kill our neighbor in any such way ?

A. No. When God condemns envy, hatred, and anger, He commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, [1] to show patience, peace, gentleness, mercy, and friendliness toward him, [2] to protect him from harm as much as we can, and to do good even to our enemies.


Regarding your example of a christian, Mr. Hitler and his "interpretation", the words of Christ ring true:

"..For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. ........."
 
Quote from Barth Vader:

106. Q. But does this commandment speak only of killing ?

A. By forbidding murder God teaches us that He hates the root of murder, such as envy, hatred, anger, and desire of revenge, [1] and that He regards all these as murder,

107. Q. Is it enough, then, that we do not kill our neighbor in any such way ?

A. No. When God condemns envy, hatred, and anger, He commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, [1] to show patience, peace, gentleness, mercy, and friendliness toward him, [2] to protect him from harm as much as we can, and to do good even to our enemies.
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i guess your god must be a do as i say not as i do kind of guy since his book indicates that he has no problem murdering innocent women and children:

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
 
Quote from vhehn:

i guess your god must be a do as i say not as i do kind of guy since his book indicates that he has no problem murdering innocent women and children:

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
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vhehn, are you sure that you want to make your point based upon these passages ? I would suggest that you, if able, read the entire message, from chapter 8 through chapter 12.

But, none the less, I would ask you a question:

Was the execution of Timothy McVeigh an acceptable act of the authority of the government ?
 
Quote from God:

Thou Shalt Not Kill
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Quote from God:

the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!.."
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It would appear you and god both, erm rather G-D, excuse me, have something in common.....


Quote from Barth Vader:

The Word of G-D, as I believe it is contained in Scripture, cannot be "interpretated",
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....you believe there cannot be interpretation


Quote from Barth Vader:

.....as contained in the "Heidelberg Catechism........ which "interpret" the sixth commandment "..Thou shall not kill....":
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...so you recommended following an interpretation
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Well done Barth,
if there's one thing religion and the religious depend on it's contradiction. Especially self-contradiction.

Next up...do we get confusion? I think probably so.
 
Quote from stu:

It would appear you and god both, erm rather G-D, excuse me, have something in common.....


....you believe there cannot be interpretation


...so you recommended following an interpretation
smileys12.gif




Well done Barth,
if there's one thing religion and the religious depend on it's contradiction. Especially self-contradiction.

Next up...do we get confusion? I think probably so.
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Good morning stu

I will grant you that the written word does not allow for the nuance of the spoken word............so may I say that you have misunderstood the meaning of my remarks.

None the less, as I stated in my reply to Misthos, when man starts to interpret, this is when religion is born. G-D does not have a religion, G-D has His Word.

Do not confuse "interpretation" with "instruction", which of course, is what the Creeds and the referenced Heidelberg Catechism are. The Spirit instructs, flesh tries to interpret its way around this instruction.
 
Quote from Barth Vader:

vhehn, are you sure that you want to make your point based upon these passages ? I would suggest that you, if able, read the entire message, from chapter 8 through chapter 12.

But, none the less, I would ask you a question:

Was the execution of Timothy McVeigh an acceptable act of the authority of the government ?
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yes. i hope you are not going to try and justify your god murdering babies.
 
Quote from Barth Vader:

Good morning stu

I will grant you that the written word does not allow for the nuance of the spoken word............so may I say that you have misunderstood the meaning of my remarks.

None the less, as I stated in my reply to Misthos, when man starts to interpret, this is when religion is born. G-D does not have a religion, G-D has His Word.

Do not confuse "interpretation" with "instruction", which of course, is what the Creeds and the referenced Heidelberg Catechism are. The Spirit instructs, flesh tries to interpret its way around this instruction.
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'mornin Barth

dude, come on man, you cannot make kill mean don't kill, either by a so called spoken word from a big magical self-contradictory cloud Daddy, or if written as some sort of suspect spiritual instruction.

If you don't mind me saying, this type of dishonesty in meaning, speech and word is exactly what the religious fall back on all the time. A contrived deception which serves to besmirch humanity.
Actually, it's a disgrace.
 
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