The question may seems dumb ,

[Drawdown Addict]

They're called wash trades, and they're illegal. Like I said, they aren't worried about peon retailers.

This is getting boring, I won't reply to anymore of your nonsense on this thread, maybe on another one, you are entertaining sometimes.

https://ninjatrader.com/futures/blogs/8-reasons-to-trade-futures-vs-stocks/

Special mention to the sentence "Futures Exempt from the Wash Sale Rule"
You like the NT boys, they let you play with your micros at a discount, I hope we can settle this stupid argument once for all.

Sorry OP, for shitting another thread with stupid arguments

 

[Overnight]

...
Special mention to the sentence "Futures Exempt from the Wash Sale Rule"...

Yes, special attention to the sentence. In futures they are wash trades, not wash sales.

Rule 534 (“Wash Trades Prohibited”)

No person shall place or accept buy and sell orders in the same product and expiration month, and, for a put or call option, the same strike price, where the person knows or reasonably should know that the purpose of the orders is to avoid taking a bona fide market position exposed to market risk (transactions commonly known or referred to as wash trades or wash sales). Buy and sell orders for different accounts with common beneficial ownership that are entered with the intent to negate market risk or price competition shall also be deemed to violate the prohibition on wash trades. Additionally, no person shall knowingly execute or accommodate the execution of such orders by direct or indirect means.

https://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/files/cme-group-ra1308-5.pdf

https://www.cmegroup.com/education/...n/wash-trades/definition-of-a-wash-trade.html

I'm glad we cleared that up.

You're welcome.

 

[murray t turtle]

Very clever Mr Turtle but make sure to check with your tax accountant.

%%
OK;
US tax laws are complicated even with a tax lawyer book , trying to be fair.
He should find a good trend+ weight that more than inverse/ than his admitted ''dumb question''
QQQ + QID are '' not exactly the same position'' + no problem, no price sameness also, but HIGHLY related . NOT a stock tip or CPA =LOL

 

[Drawdown Addict]

...

This is never going to end. You obviously cut the section from the text that appealed to your nonsense, but if you keep reading you will find this text.

Now in this text, they explain what a wash trade is ( they also call it wash sale) it is the same concept as per:

Your distinction between wash sale and wash trade doesn't make any sense, they refer to the same concept.

Now, a wash trade is a trade that:
- Consist on two orders, opposite to each other on the same price at the very same time.
- Timestamps are enforced for this sole purpose on this rule.

There is no way that you can send two orders that will match at the very same price and timestamp, you don't have the infrastructure for that. As said on the NT page, this rule does not apply for futures, and they should have added "on retail brokers".

Now, say whatever the hell you want, but that does not apply to retail brokers for the very simple reason that the infrastructure is not available to be that accurate and fast.

And be completely sure that a broker like IB would not let me trade both sides of the market if that was illegal, they would simply cancel my orders immediately.

So there is not argument here.

 

[TheDawn]

I apologize if my response came across as a generic AI-generated answer. As an AI language model, I strive to provide accurate and informative responses based on the information available to me. If there's any specific aspect of risk management strategies you would like me to elaborate on or if you have any specific questions, please let me know, and I'll be happy to assist you further.

How dare you Mark Brown to give us a AI-generated response??!! I withdraw my "like" to you and instead give that "like" to ChatGPT. That was a very well-versed response.

 

[TheDawn]

That’s called shorting against the box.

It’s against the rules, and can get you into hot water with The Man, because this technique can be used to lock in profits without paying taxes.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sellagainstthebox.asp

Yeah but you are making losses. Losses is more than the taxes that you would pay, always. So if that's to save on taxes, that's quite an inefficient way to do it.

 

[kmiklas]

Yeah but you are making losses. Losses is more than the taxes that you would pay, always. So if that's to save on taxes, that's quite an inefficient way to do it.

What do you mean “making losses?”

Yes you pay a 4% short fee, but if you made say 20% a net gain of 16% and waiting a year is far better than paying 40%—or 8% of your profits—in capital gains tax.

Holding both a long and short position is basically a perfect hedge.

 

[vanzandt]

One could always read up on (slightly) advanced option strategies too btw in order to accomplish the desired results without breaking any rules. Just a thought.

 

[timdug]

There is a way on futures that Im surprised not many take advantage of. You simply do a short month calendar spread. So take oil where we expire each month whereas equities ie. ES, YM NQ Expire each quarter.
Ok, so you go long CLU23, SHORT CLV23. The delta ie difference between these is going to be tiny over time. The further you go out the calendar, the less impact the front month has on the back cal you are trading ie. a less than 1:1 hedge.
But effectively you can go long short any futures traded product with a calendar by just utilising the calendar months.
On oil, say the front is CLU23 and it moves 20 ticks. Well the next cal V23 will move about 19 to 20 ticks. However, on the Z23, It may only move 15 to 10 ticks. On the M24 IE. JUNE 24, It may only move 3 or 5 ticks. So you need to be aware of this when trying to hedge ie. You would put on more size in the back cal to account for the calendar effect.
You can use this as I said on any fuutures product espically on the near dated calendars that have liquidity, the further you go out the cal on the product you are trading, the thinner the market - which can be a good or bad thing dcepending on what you are trying to do on the spread.

Hope this helps.

 

[Drawdown Addict]

There is a way on futures that Im surprised not many take advantage of. You simply do a short month calendar spread. So take oil where we expire each month whereas equities ie. ES, YM NQ Expire each quarter.
Ok, so you go long CLU23, SHORT CLV23. The delta ie difference between these is going to be tiny over time. The further you go out the calendar, the less impact the front month has on the back cal you are trading ie. a less than 1:1 hedge.
But effectively you can go long short any futures traded product with a calendar by just utilising the calendar months.
On oil, say the front is CLU23 and it moves 20 ticks. Well the next cal V23 will move about 19 to 20 ticks. However, on the Z23, It may only move 15 to 10 ticks. On the M24 IE. JUNE 24, It may only move 3 or 5 ticks. So you need to be aware of this when trying to hedge ie. You would put on more size in the back cal to account for the calendar effect.
You can use this as I said on any fuutures product espically on the near dated calendars that have liquidity, the further you go out the cal on the product you are trading, the thinner the market - which can be a good or bad thing dcepending on what you are trying to do on the spread.

Hope this helps.

It is fairly well known

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/calendarspread.asp

Add this to the "illegal future tricks" list