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The Perfect Prop Firm
- Thread starter Maverick74
- Start date
Prop allows you to be a pattern day trader whereas retail will not so it's more than leverage.
Its also an advantage to have a trader community in my opinion. Office or remote chat room.
Why does everyone talk about "giving up profits" at props? That' just the big props like first new york etc right?
The big props are tough to get in. They are getting a ton of top school graduates applying. They are taking the cream of the crop. Also, understand this....if youre PL is down you can be shut down and sent home at any time. Its not a game.
The deposit props are set up like the old floors. Put up some money and trade it. See how you do.
Its also an advantage to have a trader community in my opinion. Office or remote chat room.
Why does everyone talk about "giving up profits" at props? That' just the big props like first new york etc right?
The big props are tough to get in. They are getting a ton of top school graduates applying. They are taking the cream of the crop. Also, understand this....if youre PL is down you can be shut down and sent home at any time. Its not a game.
The deposit props are set up like the old floors. Put up some money and trade it. See how you do.
Quote from VinMan:
Prop allows you to be a pattern day trader whereas retail will not so it's more than leverage.
25K.
Its also an advantage to have a trader community in my opinion. Office or remote chat room.
Only of they're better than you, and not stealing your stuff.
Why does everyone talk about "giving up profits" at props? That' just the big props like first new york etc right?
Cost of using their capital.
The big props are tough to get in. They are getting a ton of top school graduates applying. They are taking the cream of the crop.
Ha .. This is not the prop I've seen. Banks maybe.
Also, understand this....if youre PL is down you can be shut down and sent home at any time. Its not a game.
How does this not make sense?
The deposit props are set up like the old floors. Put up some money and trade it. See how you do.
Not so much. A "deposit prop" is not necessarily on your team.
Prop allows you to be a pattern day trader whereas retail will not so it's more than leverage.
25K.
Its also an advantage to have a trader community in my opinion. Office or remote chat room.
Only of they're better than you, and not stealing your stuff.
Why does everyone talk about "giving up profits" at props? That' just the big props like first new york etc right?
Cost of using their capital.
The big props are tough to get in. They are getting a ton of top school graduates applying. They are taking the cream of the crop.
Ha .. This is not the prop I've seen. Banks maybe.
Also, understand this....if youre PL is down you can be shut down and sent home at any time. Its not a game.
How does this not make sense?
The deposit props are set up like the old floors. Put up some money and trade it. See how you do.
Not so much. A "deposit prop" is not necessarily on your team.
What I do not understand about prop is this:
Let's assume someone has a real profitable straegy that makes 20 percent a year (a very high profit)
Now let's assume that person joins a prop firm, gets 10 Million and trades that strategy, and really makes 20% Profits.
The problem is now, that this strategy obviously gets revealed to the prop owners, since they can take a look at what the trader does and based on the accounting statements.
Now what keeps them from firing the trader and trade the strategy by themselfes? That's one thing why prop trading does not make sense to me.
Let's assume someone has a real profitable straegy that makes 20 percent a year (a very high profit)
Now let's assume that person joins a prop firm, gets 10 Million and trades that strategy, and really makes 20% Profits.
The problem is now, that this strategy obviously gets revealed to the prop owners, since they can take a look at what the trader does and based on the accounting statements.
Now what keeps them from firing the trader and trade the strategy by themselfes? That's one thing why prop trading does not make sense to me.
Quote from ProTrader432:
What I do not understand about prop is this:
Let's assume someone has a real profitable straegy that makes 20 percent a year (a very high profit)
Now let's assume that person joins a prop firm, gets 10 Million and trades that strategy, and really makes 20% Profits.
The problem is now, that this strategy obviously gets revealed to the prop owners, since they can take a look at what the trader does and based on the accounting statements.
Now what keeps them from firing the trader and trade the strategy by themselfes? That's one thing why prop trading does not make sense to me.
That's why trust is HUGE.
I interviewed with the hedge fund Millenium and one of the guys that interviewed me said "don't fuck me over". These were his exact words.
And by the way, Millenium pays a salary and attracts real professional traders. OMG!!!! I thought salary was for piker traders! What's going on here!
The salary was not much. Just enough to get a studio in a combat zone in NYC. Hehe. You get benefits, too on top of a salary. And the office was nice, too. Lots of wood like Gordon Gekko's office. And free food.
Trust is a big word man.
I might trust my wife or a good friend, but a prop firm? That makes me laughing
I might trust my wife or a good friend, but a prop firm? That makes me laughing
Quote from ProTrader432:
What I do not understand about prop is this:
Let's assume someone has a real profitable straegy that makes 20 percent a year (a very high profit)
Now let's assume that person joins a prop firm, gets 10 Million and trades that strategy, and really makes 20% Profits.
The problem is now, that this strategy obviously gets revealed to the prop owners, since they can take a look at what the trader does and based on the accounting statements.
Now what keeps them from firing the trader and trade the strategy by themselfes? That's one thing why prop trading does not make sense to me.
Because it doesn't work that way. LOL. First of all, there is no such thing as a successful strategy, only successful traders. Unless you have a technological edge or order flow edge, you are taking risk. And figuring out the best way to interpret squiggly lines on a chart and when they cross each other and whether or not a doji candle shows up next is not an edge. Most of us who have been in this business for 15 years know that.
All strategies have to be "executed". Let me say this again because it's really really important. All strategies have to be executed. This execution part is the real reason why traders fail, not the squiggly lines. A good trader is like a good baseball hitter. All guys in MLB can hit. But not every one of them can hit under pressure in the bottom of the 9th inning with the bases loaded and 0-2 count. Prop firms look for guys that can execute. They are very rare. There is very little value in the strategy itself.
Now, if you are a programmer and you have 100k lines of code that allows for nano second market making on international stocks that are illiquid, that has some value. However, that code falls under intellectual property and you can sign a contract protecting that code. But the idea that some firm is going to watch you put up charts and trade off technical analyses and say, we have to fire that guy and take his charting signals, well, that's just laughable. It's simply not how this business works.
Let me further add that execution falls under two categories. One, the trader, as I mentioned above. But second, technology. Being able to execute faster, better and cheaper then everyone else is an edge and like I said, that falls under IP rights. Execution is everything in this business. You either have the rare ability as an individual to do it manually or you have the code for the algo to do it. Execution is what puts food on the table, not the strategy itself. As they say in golf, "drive for show and put for dough." One could just as easily say "charts are for show, execution gets the dough".
.Quote from Maverick74:
Let me further add that execution falls under two categories. One, the trader, as I mentioned above. But second, technology. Being able to execute faster, better and cheaper then everyone else is an edge and like I said, that falls under IP rights. Execution is everything in this business. You either have the rare ability as an individual to do it manually or you have the code for the algo to do it. Execution is what puts food on the table, not the strategy itself. As they say in golf, "drive for show and put for dough." One could just as easily say "charts are for show, execution gets the dough".
Thats why some traders fail to see the Value of Mark Fisher book. They think if Fish ( Mr. Fisher is known by nickname on the floor ) has any good ideas/ method, why would he share it ? (lol)
They think they have some strategy which a firm with Liquid capital and best minds do not already know. I can understand if someone do not want to share with strangers but to think they have an EDGE via their secret strategy--- Humm, all i can say there is nothing wrong being a DREAMER.
I posted couple of post earlier example of Adam Guren of First New York Securities- I am pretty sure he did not get hired into 14 months training program to come up with SECRET SAUCE. He was trained and then cut loose to learn more, trade and share with his group. Traders who do not share with thier group at firms like GS, JPM, First New York securities etc.. get booted fairly quickly and in most cases these firms have unique ability to sniff them out before they get hired.
I think the difference in various points of views is coming from ones experience with quality of firms. There are plenty of SHIT HOLES , their partners are not traders and has never traded successfully. They do not have a history and culture. Most of them can not even put their resumes on their company website. They think it is good enough to say some thing like " Combined experience of management is 50 years of trading world".
Quote from mfbreakout:
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Thats why some traders fail to see the Value of Mark Fisher book. They think if Fish ( Mr. Fisher is known by nickname on the floor ) has any good ideas/ method, why would he share it ? (lol)
They think they have some strategy which a firm with Liquid capital and best minds do not already know. I can understand if someone do not want to share with strangers but to think they have an EDGE via their secret strategy--- Humm, all i can say there is nothing wrong being a DREAMER.
Right, I could show you how to throw a nice, tight spiral. But I doubt you would be taking Tom Brady's job anytime soon with the Patriots.