The Path to Recovery: How to Re-Open America

[jem]

Of course we are going to see the virus spread when we get out. Its proof the lockdown did nothing for low risk groups. The more death which happens, the more infections which occur, the more evidence that the lockdown had zero benefits and disastrous consequences. (once we got the hospitals clear of overwhelm. Now they are so empty they are going broke.)

Why have we locked down low risk groups if we going to get infected anyway and have to develop herd immunity anyway. (if we can get herd immunity.)

We don't close down highways because some people die.
We let people drive and we let people work.

We just use reasonable precautions based on data.
We take a balanced approach to risk vs reward.
We are not a zero death society.

New hotspots is strong evidence Sweden has the only logical model.

You let the low risk groups out and live and work.

 

[Tsing Tao]

We need to do what we should have done originally. If you are elderly or have additional co-morbidity that makes you susceptible to this virus, you should take every precaution. If you aren't, then return to your lives - you're going to get the virus, and you're going to be OK.

It was about flattening the curve and buying time for resources. We've accomplished that. Stop moving the goal posts and let the world get back to living. What point is avoiding a virus that will just make us sick if we have to destroy the fabric of society to do so?

 

[gwb-trading]

We need to do what we should have done originally. If you are elderly or have additional co-morbidity that makes you susceptible to this virus, you should take every precaution. If you aren't, then return to your lives - you're going to get the virus, and you're going to be OK.

It was about flattening the curve and buying time for resources. We've accomplished that. Stop moving the goal posts and let the world get back to living. What point is avoiding a virus that will just make us sick if we have to destroy the fabric of society to do so?

So let me ask... Polio would rarely kill anyone in the 1940s and 1950s.... it would just cripple many. Why "avoid a virus that will just make us sick"? Well maybe public health disasters destroy the fabric of society much more than economic concerns. Plenty of the U.S. was shutdown in the 1940s & 1950s for periods of time to stop the spread of polio.

 

[jem]

You have no ability to tell us the shutdown cause less harm compared to letting out low risk groups. Should that not be the prerequisite for destroying other people's lives?

Did we shut down the country for 50 years waiting for a polio vaccine?

We took reasonable precautions closing pools in the Summer and Movie theaters asking people to no sit so close together. things like that.

Never in the history of this country did we quarantine the low risk like this.
Never destroyed our economy by govt compulsion like this.
Never trampled on a freedom like jack booted fasicsts with not data like this.

Absolutely instance measures when there no data to support a shutdown of low risk groups. No data saying we are saving overall lives or harm. And now they warn us we are going to get the virus anyway.

If you spent 5 minutes thinking about the risk vs reward... that we are seeing... you would see how insane you are and all the people in favor of locking down low risk groups are.

So let me ask... Polio would rarely kill anyone in the 1940s and 1950s.... it would just cripple many. Why "avoid a virus that will just make us sick"? Well maybe public health disasters destroy the fabric of society much more than economic concerns. Plenty of the U.S. was shutdown in the 1940s & 1950s for periods of time to stop the spread of polio.

 

[gwb-trading]

did the shut down the country for 50 years waiting for a polio vaccine?
you question shows an insane amount of Covid Derangement Syndrom.

We took reasonable precautions closing pools in the Summer and Movie theaters asking people to no sit so close together. things like that.

Never in the history of this country did we quarantine the low risk like this.
Never destroyed our economy by govt compulsion like this.
Never trampled on a freedom like jack booted fasicsts with not data like this.

Absolutely instance measures when there no data to support a shutdown of low risk groups. No data saying we are saving overall lives or harm. And now they warn us we are going to get the virus anyway.

If you spent 5 minutes thinking about the risk vs reward... that we are seeing... you would see how insane you are.

Jem -- we are not shutting down the country waiting for a COVID-19 vaccine. We are following the best medical guidance to shut down a state/area for 60 days and have a staged re-opening with clear entry-exit criteria. Just like the did for polio and did by city/region for the 1918 flu.

Yes... in this country we have quarantined EVERYONE in the past by city/state not just the "high risk" in previous disease outbreaks. I provided information on this regarding the 1918 flu and 1940s/1950s polio epidemic.

The 1918 flu did hurt the economy. I posted the studies and articles on this. The cities/regions that properly shutdown and re-opened has a less economic downside than those that did it poorly & let the disease spread.

 

[gwb-trading]

Fed's Powell says full economic recovery may require coronavirus vaccine
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-powell-says-full-economic-153133354.html

Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said a U.S. economic recovery may stretch deep into next year and a full comeback may depend on a coronavirus vaccine.

"This economy will recover. It may take a while ... It could stretch through the end of next year. We really don't know," Powell said in remarks aired on CBS's "Face the Nation" as part of a longer prerecorded interview to be broadcast Sunday night on the network's "60 Minutes" news show.

"Assuming there is not a second wave of the coronavirus, I think you will see the economy recover steadily through the second half of this year. For the economy to fully recover people will have to be fully confident and that may have to await the arrival of a vaccine."

The Fed has approved a suite of programs to help businesses and financial markets continue functioning during the pandemic, and to try to limit the failure of firms and families during the fight against the virus.

Fed chairs use interviews on national television networks sparingly, but the 60 Minutes interview this evening will be his second since the U.S. central bank began putting its financial power behind the virus fight.

 

[jem]

no..
we followed the wrong models with poor data.

and you have provided zero data showing that shutting down low risk groups save overall death and overall harm.

we should not have opened up to low risk groups 45 days... ago.
We are still shut and there is no science.


2. you are lying your ass off. none of your links that I saw said we shutdown people around the country from work. Your articles showed there was limited shutdown of some businesses like restaurants in some areas...

why are you lying your ass off?

Jem -- we are not shutting down the country waiting for a COVID-19 vaccine. We are following the best medical guidance to shut down a state/area for 60 days and have a staged re-opening with clear entry-exit criteria. Just like the did for polio and did by city/region for the 1918 flu.

Yes... in this country we have quarantined EVERYONE in the past by city/state not just the "high risk" in previous disease outbreaks. I provided information on this regarding the 1918 flu and 1940s/1950s polio epidemic.

The 1918 flu did hurt the economy. I posted the studies and articles on this. The cities/regions that properly shutdown and re-opened has a less economic downside than those that did it poorly & let the disease spread.

 

[gwb-trading]

no..
we followed the wrong models with poor data.

and you have provided zero data showing that shutting down low risk groups save overall death and overall harm.

we should not have opened up to low risk groups 45 days... ago.
We are still shut and there is no science.


2. you are lying your ass off. none of your links that I saw said we shutdown people around the country from work. Your articles showed there was limited shutdown of some businesses like restaurants in some areas...

why are you lying your ass off?

So let me ask you a question jem.

It has been found it is nearly impossible to keep COVID-19 out of old person homes full of high risk people in situations when many people are infected in the broader community. Even when you don't allow visitors and require the staff to stay on site it is nearly impossible to keep COVID-19 from appearing. This is due to supplies that need to delivered, medical care needed, etc.

So let's take a look at two scenarios.
1) The risk when you allow "low risk" people to wander around town freely. Approximately 15 out of 100 people have COVID-19 at any time. Many not even showing symptoms yet.
2) The risk you allow when you shut-down for 60 days and then have a phased re-opening and testing along with proper contact tracing & testing in a community. Approximately 1 out of 100 have COVID-19 at any time at most. Possibly not showing symptoms yet -- but very highly tracked and likely to be isolated at home after a proper tracing.

In scenario 1 the probability of COVID-19 getting into a old person home has got to be at least 15 times higher than scenario 2. In actuality-- because in scenario 2 positive people are properly traced & isolated -- the probability of COVID-19 getting into an old person home is probably several hundred times higher.

Let's say you have a relative in an old person home. Do you want the community following scenario 1 or scenario 2 when it comes to their protection from COVID-19?

 

[jem]

wait you told us you had provided proof we quarantined everyone....
so link to the proof.


So before i answer your questions.

1. Admit you made that up and that you never provided me links which show we shutdown the entire country from work in the face of a virus or disease.

2. and that you just made that stuff up to support your beliefs.

Admit the truth and I will start answering your questions.

3. I have told you my is in an old folks home.

So let me ask you a question jem.

It has been found it is nearly impossible to keep COVID-19 out of old person homes full of high risk people in situations when many people are infected in the broader community. Even when you don't allow visitors and require the staff to stay on site it is nearly impossible to keep COVID-19 from appearing. This is due to supplies that need to delivered, medical care needed, etc.

So let's take a look at two scenarios.
1) The risk when you allow "low risk" people to wander around town freely. Approximately 15 out of 100 people have COVID-19 at any time. Many not even showing symptoms yet.
2) The risk you allow when you shut-down for 60 days and then have a phased re-opening and testing along with proper contact tracing & testing in a community. Approximately 1 out of 100 have COVID-19 at any time at most. Possibly not showing symptoms yet -- but very highly tracked and likely to be isolated at home after a proper tracing.

In scenario 1 the probability of COVID-19 getting into a old person home has got to be at least 15 times higher than scenario 2. In actuality-- because in scenario 2 positive people are properly traced & isolated -- the probability of COVID-19 getting into an old person home is probably several hundred times higher.

Let's say you have a relative in an old person home. Do you want the community following scenario 1 or scenario 2 when it comes to their protection from COVID-19?

 

[gwb-trading]

wait you told us you had provided proof we quarantined everyone....
so link to the proof.


So before i answer your questions.

1. Admit you made that up and that you never provided me links which show we shutdown the entire country from work in the face of a virus or disease.

2. and that you just made that stuff up to support your beliefs.

Admit the truth and I will start answering your questions.

We are not shutting down the entire country right now. At least 7 states have no lockdown.

I provided proof that cities/towns/regions had lockdowns for both the 1918 flu and for polio in the 1940s/1950s. Feel free to go read the information again in detail. In fact the 1918 flu information went city-by-city with details of the lockdown requirements with start/stop dates.