The Pabst Doctrine

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from smilingsynic:

You would have more credibility if you developed some thicker skin and did not lash out, like a child, against anyone who disagreed with you.

It is possible to disagree with someone and do it with class.

You're right. I'm too often a hot head. I apologize.

I have a few (dozen) peeves as you know. One of them-and I blame the U.S. media-is the lack of global and historical perspective on issues. Take this past week. The entire friggin' world is 60-70% off the highs and the press treats the sub-prime crisis as some Blame Bush creation when in fact from Russia to China asset prices are imploding in lock step.

Libs luv to criticize the intelligence level of Americans-Obama's bitter comments say it all-but I find most folks are functional smart but just misinformed. It's not their fault. If I did nothing other than read Paul Krugman's take I'd be a foaming at the mouth idiot as well. Around 10% of life is black and white the rest is the in betweens. Those gray areas take hundreds of hours to dissect in proper form-examining the causes and effects of policies-yet the public discussion is usually summed up in one snappy 5 word headline. We live in a very unenlightened society. Instead of burning a flag we'd be best served burning the morning paper.

 

[BlindLemonBoosh]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'm certainly anti-reparations but if memory serves me correctly Keyes was using some sort of allegory to the reparations the conquering Romans paid to those they defeated.

"If memory serves me"?? You worked on the guy's campaign. So, you're saying that Keyes was merely weaving a metaphor, and not actually supporting reparations in the form of federal tax exemptions? I find that a bit hard to believe. I also find it hard to believe that the author of the Pa(b)st Doctrine would work toward getting a pro-reparations candidate elected. Weird.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

"If memory serves me"?? You worked on the guy's campaign. So, you're saying that Keyes was merely weaving a metaphor, and not actually supporting reparations in the form of federal tax exemptions? I find that a bit hard to believe. I also find it hard to believe that the author of the Pa(b)st Doctrine would work toward getting a pro-reparations candidate elected. Weird.

I was also running MY OWN CAMPAIGN for Congress so no not every 2004 day of Keyes was a day of Pabst participation.

How do you figure Keyes was "pro-reparations"? He was asked a question and gave some Keyes like answer indicating support-that's all. It was never a policy position. Me, I'd propose giving every African-American 100k if they'd leave Chicago and set up shop in Liberia.

 

[BlindLemonBoosh]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

The entire friggin' world is 60-70% off the highs and the press treats the sub-prime crisis as some Blame Bush creation when in fact from Russia to China asset prices are imploding in lock step.

Could this happen to do with the fact that the United States is the world's largest economy? Do you consider it even a remote possibility that the rest of the world would flourish while the US was in deep financial shit?

Bush (and Clinton) have been enablers of the forces which created the current crisis, as was John McCain, as evidenced by his support of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Some 'maverick'.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

By Christine Phillip
updated 3:47 p.m. PT, Wed., Aug. 18, 2004

Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate who once referred to reparations as “an insult to our slave ancestors,” is now calling for a plan that would exempt the descendants of slaves from income taxes for at least a generation.

Tax exemption would give Blacks "a competitive edge in the labor market," because they would be cheaper to hire than federal tax-paying employee" and allow Blacks to be compensated "for all those years when your labor was being exploited," said Keyes, who is challenging Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama for the U.S. Senate seat.

Keyes' different turn
The ancestors of slaves would be precluded from paying federal taxes for a generation or two. The exemption would apply only to federal taxes, as opposed to state taxes, since slavery "was an egregious failure on the part of the federal establishment,” Keyes said. There would be no exemption from Social Security taxes, however.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5747800/

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I was also running MY OWN CAMPAIGN for Congress so no not every 2004 day of Keyes was a day of Pabst participation.

How do you figure Keyes was "pro-reparations"? He was asked a question and gave some Keyes like answer indicating support-that's all. It was never a policy position. Me, I'd propose giving every African-American 100k if they'd leave Chicago and set up shop in Liberia.

 

[BlindLemonBoosh]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I was also running MY OWN CAMPAIGN for Congress so no not every 2004 day of Keyes was a day of Pabst participation.

Judging by the results, maybe you shouldn't have spread yourself so thin.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

How do you figure Keyes was "pro-reparations"? He was asked a question and gave some Keyes like answer indicating support

I'm not getting an 'anti-reparations' vibe quite yet. Neither did the media at the time. In fact, Keyes followed up with this statement clarifying his position:

"The idea I have often put forward to address this challenge involves a traditionally Republican, conservative and market-oriented approach: removing the tax burden from the black community for a generation or two in order to encourage business ownership, create jobs and support the development of strong economic foundations for working families.
This has the advantage of letting people help themselves, rather then (sic) pouring money into government bureaucracies that displace and discourage their own efforts. It takes no money from other citizens, while righting the historic imbalance that results from the truth that black slaves toiled for generations at a tax rate that was effectively 100 percent."

Sounds a lot like 'pro-reparations' to me. I would've thought that you'd come down a little harder on the guy, given the statements in your 'doctrine'.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

Could this happen to do with the fact that the United States is the world's largest economy? Do you consider it even a remote possibility that the rest of the world would flourish while the US was in deep financial shit?

There's not an ipso-facto relationship between market valuations. You should certanly know that. What's the worlds second biggest economy? Japan. Compare the Nikkei in the 1990's to U.S. indices. They went straight down (from 90-99 they lost 60%) while we were tripling in value. Hence during a period of MASSIVE American strength one of our biggest suppliers of goods got absolutely crushed and they've never bounced back.

Bush (and Clinton) have been enablers of the forces which created the current crisis, as was John McCain, as evidenced by his support of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Some 'maverick'.

I'm sure you know Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act passed by something like 90-8 with Joe Biden voting yea. It's a good bill. It also allowed us to compete with European banks who provide multi-services.
Banks cannot compete for capital as mere depository institutions anymore. When's the last time you've met someone under 60 who has a bunch of CD's or a passport savings account? Compare those net sums to the "cash management" accounts at Fidelity, Schwab and Merrill. If it wasn't for credit cards at usury rates and high transaction fees I don't think there'd be ANY profitability in retail banking. And besides while depository institutions have taken it on the chin they are about the only ones still standing. Just the fact that it's BAC solvent enough to buy MER makes criticism of Gramm-Leach irrelevant.

I'll list the factors. I'm a trader I don't “blame” people. I've got enough of that for myself. I bought 20 ES Thursday within an average of 5pts off the lows and made a whopping 20 something grand off a trade that's worth 6 times that. I'm not in a good mood.

1-10. The decline in housing prices.

11. IB's too leveraged with mortgage specific carry trades.
12. An artificially low rate environment that “forced” people to chase yield while ignoring risk.
13. A “safety net” via Fannie and Freddie that de facto subsidized the risk of non worthy borrowers.
14. Systematic fraud from borrowers, agents, brokers, appraisers right down the line.

Non traders don't think things all the way through. Not all of this money went up in smoke. There was a seller to every buyer. I was talking yesterday to a guy who sold his home in L.A. on the highs in 2005. The buyer has probably lost the home. Meanwhile my acquaintance is a mil large and renting a house. So while we can all say the “bubble” was to “blame” the fact is those who sold into it were effectively the counter party to Countrywide ect and got paid pretty darn well for swapping asset into cash.

 

[Arnie]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

By Christine Phillip
updated 3:47 p.m. PT, Wed., Aug. 18, 2004

Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate who once referred to reparations as “an insult to our slave ancestors,” is now calling for a plan that would exempt the descendants of slaves from income taxes for at least a generation.

Tax exemption would give Blacks "a competitive edge in the labor market," because they would be cheaper to hire than federal tax-paying employee" and allow Blacks to be compensated "for all those years when your labor was being exploited," said Keyes, who is challenging Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama for the U.S. Senate seat.

Keyes' different turn
The ancestors of slaves would be precluded from paying federal taxes for a generation or two. The exemption would apply only to federal taxes, as opposed to state taxes, since slavery "was an egregious failure on the part of the federal establishment,” Keyes said. There would be no exemption from Social Security taxes, however.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5747800/

Do dead people pay taxes?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You never head of the death tax?

Quote from Arnie:

Do dead people pay taxes?

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

What statements in my doctrine would lead you to believe I'm inherently opposed to giving a tax credit to the descendants of slaves? I'd rather give black folks a tax credit than give them welfare.

Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

Judging by the results, maybe you shouldn't have spread yourself so thin.



I'm not getting an 'anti-reparations' vibe quite yet. Neither did the media at the time. In fact, Keyes followed up with this statement clarifying his position:

"The idea I have often put forward to address this challenge involves a traditionally Republican, conservative and market-oriented approach: removing the tax burden from the black community for a generation or two in order to encourage business ownership, create jobs and support the development of strong economic foundations for working families.
This has the advantage of letting people help themselves, rather then (sic) pouring money into government bureaucracies that displace and discourage their own efforts. It takes no money from other citizens, while righting the historic imbalance that results from the truth that black slaves toiled for generations at a tax rate that was effectively 100 percent."

Sounds a lot like 'pro-reparations' to me. I would've thought that you'd come down a little harder on the guy, given the statements in your 'doctrine'.