The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun.... is a good guy with a gun

Tsing Tao said:
Agree wholeheartedly. Not only should more carry, but they should train themselves for such incidents.
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Agree. Carrying has a big responsibility attached. One needs to know the law where they live and they need to get to the range for practice and instruction.... it's not merely a matter of "carry", but more "competent in carrying".

Hi-lighting my own experience... when I first got into the notion of carrying/handguns, I went to the range for practice. I was astonished at how poorly I was at hitting the target. I'd always thought myself an "expert marksman"... demonstrated that at least a half-dozen times at 100-400 yd military range.... but that was with a rifle. (Was even on my HS rifle team. We shot .22s @ 50 ft, where the 10-ring was the same size as the bullet... that's about 1/4 the size of an aspirin.)

A handgun is waaaayyyyy different.

Anyone new to handguns needs training and practice!! (Took wifey to an outdoor range one time. She often missed the target by 10 FEET @ 30 yards! Handgun is of little use to her at other than point blank range.)
 
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Scataphagos said:
Agree. Carrying has a big responsibility attached. One needs to know the law where they live and they need to get to the range for practice and instruction.... it's not merely a matter of "carry", but more "competent in carrying".

Hi-lighting my own experience... when I first got into the notion of carrying/handguns, I went to the range for practice. I was astonished at how poorly I was at hitting the target. I'd always thought myself an "expert marksman"... demonstrated that at least a half-dozen times at 100-400 yd military range.... but that was with a rifle. (Was even on my HS rifle team. We shot .22s @ 50 ft, where the 10-ring was the same size as the bullet... that's about 1/4 the size of an aspirin.)

A handgun is waaaayyyyy different.

Anyone new to handguns needs training and practice!! (Took wifey to an outdoor range one time. She often missed the target by 10 FEET @ 30 yards! Handgun is of little use to her at other than point blank range.)
More...

Now imagine aiming under fire. It's a totally different ballgame. Heart rate spikes to 140, vision narrows, time slows, etc.

This is why people don't rise to the occasion, they sink to the level of their training. Muscle memory is the only thing that can be relied on, and muscle memory comes from training over and over and over again.
 
Tsing Tao said:
Now imagine aiming under fire. It's a totally different ballgame. Heart rate spikes to 140, vision narrows, time slows, etc.

This is why people don't rise to the occasion, they sink to the level of their training. Muscle memory is the only thing that can be relied on, and muscle memory comes from training over and over and over again.
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Oh HELL yes. Calmly aiming at a paper target with a handgun is difficult enough. (The sight radius of a handgun is very short, the margin for error is small, and you need to have a very steady hand to get rounds onto the target.) Imagine trying to hold a sight picture on an adversary who is likely trying to kill you... and you want to "get your shot off before he gets his"... where your mind and fears are racing and your hands are trembling because you are scared to death? Not sure how we practice for that, but any kinds of training and practice are better than none.
 
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Scataphagos said:
Oh HELL yes. Calmly aiming at a paper target with a handgun is difficult enough. (The sight radius of a handgun is very short, the margin for error is small, and you need to have a very steady hand to get rounds onto the target.) Imagine trying to hold a sight picture on an adversary who is likely trying to kill you... and you want to "get your shot off before he gets his"... where your mind and fears are racing and your hands are trembling because you are scared to death? Not sure how we practice for that, but any kinds of training and practice are better than none.
More...

Without doing live fire exercises (which is ridiculous for civilians) the only thing you can do is drill over and over the drawing and aiming and firing mechanics so that your muscles memorize the movements. This way, God forbid it actually happens, your muscles act without requiring your brain to give them any other direction beyond "execute".

Like walking up the stairs. You can do it normally and you can do it in a fire, and there won't be any difference because it's pre-programmed.
 
Tsing Tao said:
Now imagine aiming under fire. It's a totally different ballgame. Heart rate spikes to 140, vision narrows, time slows, etc.
More...

I know you carry, but for most people, they have a gun at home in case of a break-in. In that situation I have read the average time you have to react is less than a minute, and you might be sound asleep. I don't know how you train for that, plus you are so right that the adrenalin rush and fear is going to make it very difficult to accomplish even a simple task.

It's one reason I like a striker-fired pistol like a Glock or a revolver versus something where you have to manipulate a safety.
 
I read an article... probably here. A cop talked about learning how to shoot one handed at center mass quickly. I think centered shooting is very unnatural and that is why it requires so much training to not suck under pressure. I therefore spent more than half my time on the range shooting one handed.

Unless we are going to compete or spend thousands of hours training, I think we should shoot the way we would when we pull up our finger gun. (if you are strong enough to control your weapon.) Extend your finger pick a target on the wall and shoot. You naturally turn to the side a bit. You naturally aim with the correct eye and naturally either close and re open or just keep the non sight eye open. I believe your eyes want 2 different lengths so they know how to work together and get a better idea of depth.

2. If you agree with shooting sideways... bringing the other arm up is useful to control recoil or trigger pull but it does interfere a bit with naturalness.



edit... i just found a similar article to the one I read here. I realize he is pushing a different type of shooting but the logic is compelling to me.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/john-velt/two-hands-good-one-hand-better-pt-1/


Distance equals time, or lack thereof. If you don’t have the distance/time to assume a “proper” combat stance and grip, you won’t do it. The New York Police Department’s long-term study of thousands of police combat cases confirms it: most officers engaged in an armed confrontation fired with their strong hand. This YouTube video demonstrates the point:
 
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I read this. It comes off as being too confident.
I am saying that because I did not shoot a lot outside of about 2 year period when I had a money and time to burn and because I suspect I would revert to what is natural I choose to at least partially train in I way I thought I might naturally respond.

TJustice said:
I read an article... probably here. A cop talked about learning how to shoot one handed at center mass quickly. I think centered shooting is very unnatural and that is why it requires so much training to not suck under pressure. I therefore spent more than half my time on the range shooting one handed.

Unless we are going to compete or spend thousands of hours training, I think we should shoot the way we would when we pull up our finger gun. (if you are strong enough to control your weapon.) Extend your finger pick a target on the wall and shoot. You naturally turn to the side a bit. You naturally aim with the correct eye and naturally either close and re open or just keep the non sight eye open. I believe your eyes want 2 different lengths so they know how to work together and get a better idea of depth.

2. If you agree with shooting sideways... bringing the other arm up is useful to control recoil or trigger pull but it does interfere a bit with naturalness.



edit... i just found a similar article to the one I read here. I realize he is pushing a different type of shooting but the logic is compelling to me.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/john-velt/two-hands-good-one-hand-better-pt-1/


Distance equals time, or lack thereof. If you don’t have the distance/time to assume a “proper” combat stance and grip, you won’t do it. The New York Police Department’s long-term study of thousands of police combat cases confirms it: most officers engaged in an armed confrontation fired with their strong hand. This YouTube video demonstrates the point:
More...
 
TJustice said:
I read this. It comes off as being too confident.
I am saying that because I did not shoot a lot outside of about 2 year period when I had a money and time to burn and because I suspect I would revert to what is natural I choose to at least partially train in I way I thought I might naturally respond.
More...
Do your family and everyone else a favor and just stay away from guns.
 
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