I'm curious about something: do Brazilians in general feel part of "Latin American"? They've got a different language and heritage in certain ways, so do they really feel part of South American culturally and historically or do they feel mostly separate and independent?
The New South America Union.
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
I'm curious about something: do Brazilians in general feel part of "Latin American"? They've got a different language and heritage in certain ways, so do they really feel part of South American culturally and historically or do they feel mostly separate and independent?
Yes, but notice that some of the articles say that they want to model it after the European Union. If so, there will be economic requirements for entry, which would be very good for the region. Brazil, Chili, etc. could take leadership in this and pull up the whole continent. This is effectively what the Eurocrats did and it has been quite effective, strengthening many economies that were headed nowhere. That's why I asked the question above: I am wondering if Brazil even wants that kind of role? I doubt they would if they do not identify with South American as a whole...
I agree that Hugo Chavez should not be compared to Hitler: he is not slaughtering millions of innocent people for example. But I do think he is capable of being the next Castro.
Hi,
I'm from Europe but have lived in Brazil basically since 1999. I think I've learned a lot about the country and the people here in that time.
Brazil is around 190 million people, and just like other large nations - they easily get lost within their own problems and issues. Brazil has very protectionist rules in place so that no one shall come there and waltz over any national industry or market segment. Imports are seriously restricted and heavily taxed. It's illegal to send something that is "used" or second hand to someone. Normal import tarifs are 50-60% for consumers.
When terrestrial digital-tv standards were considered the experts did all the due diligence and tested all the standards. In the end, the politicians cut all the work done and said they wanted their own standard - so that all the production and proceedings would be kept within Brazil (to much enjoyment of national factory owners). That also means that it will become more expensive and more difficult to get other than brazilian produced material into the country. China does more or less the same thing for 4G mobile networks - but maybe they'll change their minds some day. However, it has much more ramifications when you effectively stop content like the setting of a national DTV standard in Brazil's case.
Brazil has an enormous problem with regards to education. The always come close to last in worldwide polls regarding student knowledge etc. Corruption is rampant, and embezzlement of federal funds is almost some kind of sport for public officials; "everyone else rob millions - so I'll just take a little for myself; I'm not a huge thief - look at those others robbing huge amounts." Without any outlook for the future the spiral is only downwards. Brazil has seriously unjust tax laws, and product taxes makes up for most of the taxes with up to 40 different taxes for a product before it hits markets - only second to Thailand in the world.
Bureaucracy is oversized like in almost all latin countries. I would also wager that Brazil has more than it's share of really, really poor people - and lots of them. Therefore dragging down the whole of South America with regards to standard of living etc. On the other hand - Brazil lifted around 26 million people from the lowest of poor into middle class citizens over a few recent years. And Brazil is the world's richest nation with regards to national resources. They also elected their first president not from an elite part of society. Brazil has social-economic divides that are just as strong as the racial divides in the US.
Now, Brazil has and will continue to benefit from the growth in China and India. They export more and more natural resources and commodities to these growth powerhouses. But just like the US is vulnerable - Brazil might become vulnerable one day - and that's when it would be wise to have more pillars supporting their economic boon. Lula talked about a single south american currency - and while this could be very good and the climate for the natural resource strong countries in south america is good nowadays - we can hardly expect the fiscal responsibility of the european countries in the whole of south america. Brazil has done exceptionally well lately, on the back of rising trade with China. However, they continue to be hostile towards foreign investments, commerce and imports. I don't see this changing anytime soon. When looking at school material here - it's sometimes shocking to see so many factual flaws taught to kids.
Brazil and some of the other countries here in south america are hotheads who get into bickering and small fights all the time. What they can do is open for more trade and commerce, possibly some military defense union - which could be worth quite a lot as they spend some of their newfound fortunes on beefing up shiny new toys for the military guys ... Hehe, dangerous for the long term - knowing how the military still has it's say in many of the south american countries - also in Brazil.
It's not all roses, but it's a good start and Lula definitely has gotten a lot of attention of the OECD countries with his G20 agricultural group - opposing the G7/8. Lately there has been some reforms so that you can enter the stock market with just (BRL) R$ 30, I think it is. This coupled with more incentives for foreign investors alike will make sure Brazil's economy continues to grow for quite some time - but how it's handled will be another matter. They show fiscal responsibility still - but have more than 100% annual interest on many credit loans and the bank can still not do a foreclosure on a family's house - so there is no refinancing or using your house as credit like in other countries around the world. Brazil is not a consumer economy - but they do tax the population heavily and keep wages low still, while social-economic differences continue to grow. Still, there is the lack of land reform which makes squatting groups go and "claim" city center land which they deem are not being put to use.
There are so many issues that an union of these from all south american countries would pile up an agenda bigger than anyone could hope to see being attended in a lifetime. They could start by taking some babysteps - and especially Brazil in opening their borders for commerce and imports.
I'm from Europe but have lived in Brazil basically since 1999. I think I've learned a lot about the country and the people here in that time.
Brazil is around 190 million people, and just like other large nations - they easily get lost within their own problems and issues. Brazil has very protectionist rules in place so that no one shall come there and waltz over any national industry or market segment. Imports are seriously restricted and heavily taxed. It's illegal to send something that is "used" or second hand to someone. Normal import tarifs are 50-60% for consumers.
When terrestrial digital-tv standards were considered the experts did all the due diligence and tested all the standards. In the end, the politicians cut all the work done and said they wanted their own standard - so that all the production and proceedings would be kept within Brazil (to much enjoyment of national factory owners). That also means that it will become more expensive and more difficult to get other than brazilian produced material into the country. China does more or less the same thing for 4G mobile networks - but maybe they'll change their minds some day. However, it has much more ramifications when you effectively stop content like the setting of a national DTV standard in Brazil's case.
Brazil has an enormous problem with regards to education. The always come close to last in worldwide polls regarding student knowledge etc. Corruption is rampant, and embezzlement of federal funds is almost some kind of sport for public officials; "everyone else rob millions - so I'll just take a little for myself; I'm not a huge thief - look at those others robbing huge amounts." Without any outlook for the future the spiral is only downwards. Brazil has seriously unjust tax laws, and product taxes makes up for most of the taxes with up to 40 different taxes for a product before it hits markets - only second to Thailand in the world.
Bureaucracy is oversized like in almost all latin countries. I would also wager that Brazil has more than it's share of really, really poor people - and lots of them. Therefore dragging down the whole of South America with regards to standard of living etc. On the other hand - Brazil lifted around 26 million people from the lowest of poor into middle class citizens over a few recent years. And Brazil is the world's richest nation with regards to national resources. They also elected their first president not from an elite part of society. Brazil has social-economic divides that are just as strong as the racial divides in the US.
Now, Brazil has and will continue to benefit from the growth in China and India. They export more and more natural resources and commodities to these growth powerhouses. But just like the US is vulnerable - Brazil might become vulnerable one day - and that's when it would be wise to have more pillars supporting their economic boon. Lula talked about a single south american currency - and while this could be very good and the climate for the natural resource strong countries in south america is good nowadays - we can hardly expect the fiscal responsibility of the european countries in the whole of south america. Brazil has done exceptionally well lately, on the back of rising trade with China. However, they continue to be hostile towards foreign investments, commerce and imports. I don't see this changing anytime soon. When looking at school material here - it's sometimes shocking to see so many factual flaws taught to kids.
Brazil and some of the other countries here in south america are hotheads who get into bickering and small fights all the time. What they can do is open for more trade and commerce, possibly some military defense union - which could be worth quite a lot as they spend some of their newfound fortunes on beefing up shiny new toys for the military guys ... Hehe, dangerous for the long term - knowing how the military still has it's say in many of the south american countries - also in Brazil.
It's not all roses, but it's a good start and Lula definitely has gotten a lot of attention of the OECD countries with his G20 agricultural group - opposing the G7/8. Lately there has been some reforms so that you can enter the stock market with just (BRL) R$ 30, I think it is. This coupled with more incentives for foreign investors alike will make sure Brazil's economy continues to grow for quite some time - but how it's handled will be another matter. They show fiscal responsibility still - but have more than 100% annual interest on many credit loans and the bank can still not do a foreclosure on a family's house - so there is no refinancing or using your house as credit like in other countries around the world. Brazil is not a consumer economy - but they do tax the population heavily and keep wages low still, while social-economic differences continue to grow. Still, there is the lack of land reform which makes squatting groups go and "claim" city center land which they deem are not being put to use.
There are so many issues that an union of these from all south american countries would pile up an agenda bigger than anyone could hope to see being attended in a lifetime. They could start by taking some babysteps - and especially Brazil in opening their borders for commerce and imports.
Brazil with their poor educational system (one of the worst in the world wrt actual student results) does have a lack of professionals and the tradition/know-how of such professionals. Lastly, China has cheaper labour and produces better quality ...
Brazil is chock full of chinese produced goods - most times with better quality than brazilian equivalents as well as being cheaper.
Brazil is chock full of chinese produced goods - most times with better quality than brazilian equivalents as well as being cheaper.
Excellent Commentary All
..................................................................................
Both Chavez and Bush both show very clearly what truely bad leadership means....
Everyone is already aware why....
.................................................................................
However in some of the poorer countries the problem starts at home....
In some of the countries, it is difficult to find an 18 year old girl who does not have a child....
Most of these children do not have a father at home....
When and if any of these children make it to a political office, they do so from a job that pays $200 to $800 per month....
The political office serves as a focus of control of the countries tax revenues, which is the biggest business in the country....
The time window is very short to make money....these people know that this is probably their only shot at having money....
Thus to get into such a position....many useless jobs are given out.....Many government payrolls that should have 50 people may have 2000.... This is no joke....
Thus the important projects of the country never get done....and when election time comes again....the process starts all over again....
This is Latin America....
..............................................................
The US clearly shows the other end of the spectrum....how lazy wealthy privileged children piss away the hard work of real people....Bush is a perfect example of this....
..................................................................................
Both Chavez and Bush both show very clearly what truely bad leadership means....
Everyone is already aware why....
.................................................................................
However in some of the poorer countries the problem starts at home....
In some of the countries, it is difficult to find an 18 year old girl who does not have a child....
Most of these children do not have a father at home....
When and if any of these children make it to a political office, they do so from a job that pays $200 to $800 per month....
The political office serves as a focus of control of the countries tax revenues, which is the biggest business in the country....
The time window is very short to make money....these people know that this is probably their only shot at having money....
Thus to get into such a position....many useless jobs are given out.....Many government payrolls that should have 50 people may have 2000.... This is no joke....
Thus the important projects of the country never get done....and when election time comes again....the process starts all over again....
This is Latin America....
..............................................................
The US clearly shows the other end of the spectrum....how lazy wealthy privileged children piss away the hard work of real people....Bush is a perfect example of this....
Who is comparing who is killing more people?
What is being discussed is SA's support of the idea of Chavez 'taking over his spanish neighbors' to be the 'leader', which is exactly the same type of ambition Hitler had.
What is even more absurd that it this would be ok with SA as long as Brazil is left alone.
Hopefully the silliness bucket is not full. I am sure there is more 'brilliance' to come.
.
Gringinho: Brazil with their poor educational system (one of the worst in the world wrt actual student results) does have a lack of professionals and the tradition/know-how of such professionals....
******
May 28, 2008
SouthAmerica: Reply to Gringinho
Sorry to say that but you donât have a clue about the Brazilian educational system.
About 9 years ago I did some research regarding Brazilâs educational system and the goal of the study was to bring Brazilian kids to study at FDU in NJ. (Fairleigh Dickinson University).
As part of the study I had to get all the information and statistics about foreign students who come to the United States to further their education at the undergrad, graduate and advanced levels.
At that time I found out that the number of Brazilians studying abroad were not that large and I was pleased to find out that the reason was because of the high quality of the educational level of Brazilian universities. I also found out that usually when Brazilians go to a foreign country to further their education they prefer to go to European universities.
Today, I know a number of well-educated people in Brazil who canât find a job because of the job market situation and not because of the lack of education or professional experience at the highest levels.
.
Gringinho: Brazil with their poor educational system (one of the worst in the world wrt actual student results) does have a lack of professionals and the tradition/know-how of such professionals....
******
May 28, 2008
SouthAmerica: Reply to Gringinho
Sorry to say that but you donât have a clue about the Brazilian educational system.
About 9 years ago I did some research regarding Brazilâs educational system and the goal of the study was to bring Brazilian kids to study at FDU in NJ. (Fairleigh Dickinson University).
As part of the study I had to get all the information and statistics about foreign students who come to the United States to further their education at the undergrad, graduate and advanced levels.
At that time I found out that the number of Brazilians studying abroad were not that large and I was pleased to find out that the reason was because of the high quality of the educational level of Brazilian universities. I also found out that usually when Brazilians go to a foreign country to further their education they prefer to go to European universities.
Today, I know a number of well-educated people in Brazil who canât find a job because of the job market situation and not because of the lack of education or professional experience at the highest levels.
.