i typically trade relatively large baskets of stocks-50-100 positions..every single day i see how "they" withdraw their bids when i trying to unload(for example long positions) all at once at the current bid price.whatever you say guys, from my perspective it's not fair ,when someone can withdraw their bid OR have ability to place an order before your order can reach an exchange. it's basically front running. if very small tax can stop this abuse and can stop the useless flashers-i would appreciate it and don't mid to pay some extra to get rid of them. in recent months it 's became nearly impossible for retail guy to get into winning trade on 50-500K volume stocks. i did very extensive research and i'm keeping records of my "fill ratio"..it's falling every single day. "adding liquidity" is a bs because as i said above-they do have ability to withdraw their orders.they not really adding anything. you can see 20K shares at the bid on some 100K average stock and you sell 100 at this price or place a sell order at 1 cent above to narrow the spread from let say 2 cents to one and they gone with this 20K order in milliseconds. it's all bs most of the time. at least on stocks that i'm dealing with.
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The New Masters of Wall Street
- Thread starter Baron
- Start date
You're trading stocks with volume that low and you're complaining about your fill? Get a grip, it has nothing to do with HFT. Go find another bogey man.Quote from Bob111:
i typically trade relatively large baskets of stocks-50-100 positions..every single day i see how "they" withdraw their bids when i trying to unload(for example long positions) all at once at the current bid price.whatever you say guys, from my perspective it's not fair ,when someone can withdraw their bid OR have ability to place an order before your order can reach an exchange. it's basically front running. if very small tax can stop this abuse and can stop the useless flashers-i would appreciate it and don't mid to pay some extra to get rid of them. in recent months it 's became nearly impossible for retail guy to get into winning trade on 50-500K volume stocks. i did very extensive research and i'm keeping records of my "fill ratio"..it's falling every single day. "adding liquidity" is a bs because as i said above-they do have ability to withdraw their orders.they not really adding anything. you can see 20K shares at the bid on some 100K average stock and you sell 100 at this price or place a sell order at 1 cent above to narrow the spread from let say 2 cents to one and they gone with this 20K order in milliseconds. it's all bs most of the time. at least on stocks that i'm dealing with.
Quote from Bob111:
...from my perspective it's not fair ,when someone can withdraw their bid OR have ability to place an order before your order can reach an exchange. it's basically front running.
For an order to be classified as a frontrun someone must know it is pending for placement. How do you think those HF traders know you are going to place an order to withdraw their bid? This has nothing to do with HFT. It is the market maker who is playing the game and in most cases it is legal for them to do so.
I keep reading posts of people who label HFT as frontrunning. This cannot be so unless someone knows about an order being transmitted to an exchange and manages to place an order before it.
On the contrary, it is basic finance that says that HF traders get rewarded by making prices more efficient. If they are wrong, they would be losing money. By being right, it means they make price discovery more efficient.
OK, this is the new enemy. Like speculators in the case of crude oil. I guess when a subject is highly specialized, the general public can be manipulated to believe anything the politicians and journalists want to feed it.
Shame...
Quote from Bob111:
i typically trade relatively large baskets of stocks-50-100 positions..every single day i see how "they" withdraw their bids when i trying to unload(for example long positions) all at once at the current bid price.whatever you say guys, from my perspective it's not fair ,when someone can withdraw their bid OR have ability to place an order before your order can reach an exchange. it's basically front running. if very small tax can stop this abuse and can stop the useless flashers-i would appreciate it and don't mid to pay some extra to get rid of them. in recent months it 's became nearly impossible for retail guy to get into winning trade on 50-500K volume stocks. i did very extensive research and i'm keeping records of my "fill ratio"..it's falling every single day. "adding liquidity" is a bs because as i said above-they do have ability to withdraw their orders.they not really adding anything. you can see 20K shares at the bid on some 100K average stock and you sell 100 at this price or place a sell order at 1 cent above to narrow the spread from let say 2 cents to one and they gone with this 20K order in milliseconds. it's all bs most of the time. at least on stocks that i'm dealing with.
stocks that trade that low in volume you never ever show your hand like that. if you got some size work your order a few hundred shares at a time. a stock that trades 100k avg volume and theres a big bid there and you come in with a huge offer right next to the bid the bid is gonna back down. that is an algo not a human and it says if this seller wants to come this low with size hes probably willing to go even lower. so if your the buyer you obviously want the best level of execution as well.
ps free tip if your a seller you put a big bid out there and right next to the offer leave 100 share reserve order you will be surprised how much you get taken out without accumulating anymore stock in these illiquid names.
Quote from Bob111:
i typically trade relatively large baskets of stocks-50-100 positions..every single day i see how "they" withdraw their bids when i trying to unload(for example long positions) all at once at the current bid price.whatever you say guys, from my perspective it's not fair ,when someone can withdraw their bid OR have ability to place an order before your order can reach an exchange. it's basically front running. if very small tax can stop this abuse and can stop the useless flashers-i would appreciate it and don't mid to pay some extra to get rid of them. in recent months it 's became nearly impossible for retail guy to get into winning trade on 50-500K volume stocks. i did very extensive research and i'm keeping records of my "fill ratio"..it's falling every single day. "adding liquidity" is a bs because as i said above-they do have ability to withdraw their orders.they not really adding anything. you can see 20K shares at the bid on some 100K average stock and you sell 100 at this price or place a sell order at 1 cent above to narrow the spread from let say 2 cents to one and they gone with this 20K order in milliseconds. it's all bs most of the time. at least on stocks that i'm dealing with.
you are willing to accept a small tax.. let me give you you the number at .001 per transaction amount.
Minimum annual transaction tax with one turnover per day ( 1 buy and 1 sell) and $100,000 of capital is:
$100,000 * 0.001 * 2 * 250 days = $50,000
u may get what u wish for. this is ithe bill going through committee in the US congress.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150546
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2562758#post2562758
more efficient mean less money. for all of us. my situation is a perfect example of how more efficent markets works.On the contrary, it is basic finance that says that HF traders get rewarded by making prices more efficient. If they are wrong, they would be losing money. By being right, it means they make price discovery more efficient.
Quote from rufus_4000:
Unbelievable. Being a owner and operator of HFT strategies, i am amazed at the attentions that this really very "niche" business is getting. And suddenly firms like Getco are on the front pages of magazines (Forbes, WSJ). And I have seen plenty of automated systems driven "action" that pushes the market around. Let's face it, if you drop $2B into the market, the market will go in your favor for a little while.
Since I know some of the names contained in those article, what are they thinking? HFT doesn't make *that* much money, I have yet seen any HFT trader making $100M (ok, maybe misha came close).
This is my prediction what will happen. A whole lot of nothing. They will outlaw "flash orders" (very little volume comes from that anyways), and put a cap on holding limits. And then the politicians are going to declare victory. And come 2010 election cycle, we will be filled with ads like this:
"I am John Doe, congressman from your state. I *FOUGHT* for you, the Main Street, against the Wall Street Fat Cats. I was instrumental in out lawing illegal wall street practices like Flash Orders, and limit their capability to manipulate the market. I am on YOUR side, the average American Investor. And I want to fight for you for 2 more years."
Mean while, the market just laughs at it, and business continues on as usual.
Speaking of Misha Malyshev, did citadel end up paying him the $100 million they owed? the guy was a beast, his high-frequency unit made the firm like $2 billion. and he's apparently a really nice guy to boot.