The National Cattlemen say markets are broken.
- Thread starter just21
- Start date
F*cking welfare ranchers. Booo hooo. http://www.alternet.org/economy/exposing-americas-billionaire-welfare-ranchers
Things are actually rough right now. So, there is a witch hunt.
HFT is probably the best thing that happened for producers (if anybody is actually doing HFT in cattle) in terms of liquidity. Floor brokers can easily fudge quotes or piss away a couple of ticks to maintain relationships with locals. Do a big order and it becomes a feeding frenzy. There's a very good reason why the most expensive seat at the CME are for some of the least traded products. Nuff said.
HFT is probably the best thing that happened for producers (if anybody is actually doing HFT in cattle) in terms of liquidity. Floor brokers can easily fudge quotes or piss away a couple of ticks to maintain relationships with locals. Do a big order and it becomes a feeding frenzy. There's a very good reason why the most expensive seat at the CME are for some of the least traded products. Nuff said.
looking at the above 2 (not Xandman) comments, clearly none of you have ever traded either feeder or live cattle. Are these 2 mkts broken? yes. Is HFT to blame? In feeder cattle there is a strong case, but in live cattle it is no more broken than it has been for last 15 years. In live cattle it isn't an HFT manipulation issue, its just games the packers (end users) play. They play the same game in cash (physical) cattle trades as well. The issue is more captive supply and NOT anything "new", with the exception of the feeder cattle market. but again, the above comments prove just how little anyone no ET knows....go back to blowing out your $500 ES accounts...
I traded ags for a several years, stopped trading cattle in 2009, but have kept up with the mkts and know many of the both speculative and hedge players, both small and large. The same issues were there when I moved from cattle to exclusively grains and energies in 09, but nobody who trades those mkts day in and day out can deny that they, and especially feeder cattle, have changed drastically since the pits closed.
and to the comment about the large orders and giving up ticks to the locals....again, clearly you havent traded these. The slippage now on a 5 lot in feeder cattle is MUCH MUCH worse than what a 20 or 30 lot was with the locals just 2 years ago. Heck the other day feeders had a $2.50-$3.00 (depending on month) OPENING RANGE, in first minute....and on how much volume? <200 contracts. That simply didn't happen when pits were open, and feeders were just as volatile in day to day price swings last year. The point isn't the moves, its how there is NO liquidity when you need to execute.
I really hate to say it, but some folks need a big lesson in volume and liquidity. They are not one in the same. Volume is NOT liquidity.
I traded ags for a several years, stopped trading cattle in 2009, but have kept up with the mkts and know many of the both speculative and hedge players, both small and large. The same issues were there when I moved from cattle to exclusively grains and energies in 09, but nobody who trades those mkts day in and day out can deny that they, and especially feeder cattle, have changed drastically since the pits closed.
and to the comment about the large orders and giving up ticks to the locals....again, clearly you havent traded these. The slippage now on a 5 lot in feeder cattle is MUCH MUCH worse than what a 20 or 30 lot was with the locals just 2 years ago. Heck the other day feeders had a $2.50-$3.00 (depending on month) OPENING RANGE, in first minute....and on how much volume? <200 contracts. That simply didn't happen when pits were open, and feeders were just as volatile in day to day price swings last year. The point isn't the moves, its how there is NO liquidity when you need to execute.
I really hate to say it, but some folks need a big lesson in volume and liquidity. They are not one in the same. Volume is NOT liquidity.
I don't know a damn thing about the fundamental side of the Live Cattle market but it's one of my favorite markets to swing trade. When it moves, it moves.
Oh yeah, in your "value system" using public lands to put cheap meat on everybody's tables is a bad thing? Maybe you can find a company using child labor in Asia and boycott it to make sure those families lose what little income they have?
Dear Fractals,
If he can't ranch, "off the dole," then I suggest he gets a new hobby. Perhaps he can open a garment factory in Dhaka. Pay those greedy 9yo's $0.30/day and shackle the little f*ckers to their sewing tables. He can always burn it down if they strike for a piss-break.
Oh and that dipshit Lebron Finicky from the Malheur takeover was on the dole with a dozen foster kids. $130K/year in foster payments. His farm had no other significant source of income. They acted as unpaid employees on his ranch. Talk about handouts.
Maybe you'd be able to afford beef at these !astronomical! prices if you're weren't such a f*cking loser. It's funny how we have ranchers getting by w/o resorting to freegrazing.
If he can't ranch, "off the dole," then I suggest he gets a new hobby. Perhaps he can open a garment factory in Dhaka. Pay those greedy 9yo's $0.30/day and shackle the little f*ckers to their sewing tables. He can always burn it down if they strike for a piss-break.
Oh and that dipshit Lebron Finicky from the Malheur takeover was on the dole with a dozen foster kids. $130K/year in foster payments. His farm had no other significant source of income. They acted as unpaid employees on his ranch. Talk about handouts.
Maybe you'd be able to afford beef at these !astronomical! prices if you're weren't such a f*cking loser. It's funny how we have ranchers getting by w/o resorting to freegrazing.