The Monaco thread

L

londonkid

Hi

Any traders here have Monaco or residency or citizenship? I visited last week, amazing place but I couldn't really get a good look as I had my youngsters with me.

It seems the barriers to residency are lower than I initially thought and the amount required to be held in a Monaco bank for attestation lowered in the last decade. A property agent based in Monaco told me they new of a bank that would provide attestation for 200,000 euros. Allegedly there is another bank that can do it for 100,000 euros however I am yet to see this in black and white.

Renting a studio is possible for 2000 euros per month. Only 3 months residency is required per year with no checks at the border.

If you are ruthless in your pursuit of low taxation then this has got to be a great option for anyone who is not a French passport holder.

I also read somewhere that Monaco residents and citizens are not allowed to gamble or enter any casino in Moncao. This presumably is to protect them from losing money. Don't know if this is true.
 
Anyone know why is the amount requested so low and getting lower ?
is the Monaco residency challenged more and more by other tax authorities ?
Nice place (for a tax haven at least) and sweet deal for sure, but I suspect the french and italian authorities do put some pressure to find out who is taxwise residing in Monaco while physically living across the border ( it's even more complicated if you have kids if they need to register for school or other services in France or Italy)
As of french passport holders, yes, it sucks for them but I was told by some guy there (a few years back, when I used to go to Monaco half regulary) that although french in Monaco were supposed to pay tax as french residents, the banking secrecy in Monaco made it very difficult/impossible for french authorities to control the actual income of residents in Monaco. Not sure if it's (still) true.
 
luisHK said:
Anyone know why is the amount requested so low and getting lower ?
is the Monaco residency challenged more and more by other tax authorities ?
Nice place (for a tax haven at least) and sweet deal for sure, but I suspect the french and italian authorities do put some pressure to find out who is taxwise residing in Monaco while physically living across the border ( it's even more complicated if you have kids if they need to register for school or other services in France or Italy)
As of french passport holders, yes, it sucks for them but I was told by some guy there (a few years back, when I used to go to Monaco half regulary) that although french in Monaco were supposed to pay tax as french residents, the banking secrecy in Monaco made it very difficult/impossible for french authorities to control the actual income of residents in Monaco. Not sure if it's (still) true.
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I believe one of the reasons the bank attestation hurdle has been lowered is because they were losing out to rival Andorra who dropped their deposit amount to 400k euros in 2012. I agree that keeping a 'lower footprint' is much harder when you have kids. I am guessing many rich people own property by way of an offshore company on the French Riviera and they keep a low profile there. I guess the real bind is to actually live in Monaco in reasonable comfort you would need to be paying 8k+ euros per month in rent, which would still be worth it for high earners. The studio flat option really is just a workaround I guess. I suppose if you really are determined to pay no tax you can do it but equally you could become a nomad in a motorhome and never stop in 1 country for more than a couple of months.
 
CALLumbus said:
Societe Generale Monaco will provide the confirmation for 100,000 EUR.

But a studio for 2000 EUR in Monaco ? I think for that money you can only get something like a 15sqm hole...

For a regular apartment with 60+ sqm, you should calculate with 4000-6000 EUR per month, minimum.
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Soc Gen was also the name I heard doing the 100k euro attestation - dont know if it's fact. Here is a 2000 euro pm studio

http://www.montecarlo-realestate.co...nal-rental-central-refurbished-furnished.html

the living area is 5m x 5m lolol. it really is a work around, I am sure the people doing this are actually staying there may 10 nights a year, just enough to product the mobile phone and electricity records to maintain residency. As I am sure you know there are no checks at the border although I expect driving from Monaco to Nice will be capture your number plate many times on ANPRs. I expect many move in an out via cash ticket on the train to keep a low footprint.
 
londonkid said:
I believe one of the reasons the bank attestation hurdle has been lowered is because they were losing out to rival Andorra who dropped their deposit amount to 400k euros in 2012. I agree that keeping a 'lower footprint' is much harder when you have kids. I am guessing many rich people own property by way of an offshore company on the French Riviera and they keep a low profile there. I guess the real bind is to actually live in Monaco in reasonable comfort you would need to be paying 8k+ euros per month in rent, which would still be worth it for high earners. The studio flat option really is just a workaround I guess. I suppose if you really are determined to pay no tax you can do it but equally you could become a nomad in a motorhome and never stop in 1 country for more than a couple of months.
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I didn't know about Andorra lowering its requirement, but also didn't know Andorra attracted the same crowd as Monaco. But agree with you, and actually don't understand why single independant traders without kids have tax issues if they are willing to travel a bit.
One needs a better set up once they have a family but before that ime it is a much easier game.
i'd face citizenship issues if moving to Monaco with the family, but this nothwistanding (as well as the real estate cost as I'm looking for apartments much bigger than 60sqm, and Monaco seems at least as bad as HK), imo it is a good european location to move to with seemingly straightforward low taxation
 
luisHK said:
imo it is a good european location to move to with seemingly straightforward low taxation
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In terms of standard of living Alpes Maritimes region of France is superb imo. It has superb climate, beaches plus mountains for skiing. Healthcare/education is very good. Food & Culture is another bonus to for those of us who do not like to go from 'Mall to Mall'. In addition to this you can get low cost flights out of Nice airport to most place in Europe within 2 hours.

The wealth on display in Monaco was crazy. It seems the standard cars there are a new model Range Rover for her and Porsche 911 for him. That's before they get started on the Rollers, Ferraris, Maserati, Maclarens, Lambos. Life expectancy is 90 years old, I am sure that has a lot to do with them having a private doctor keeping them going in the later years.
 
Agree with all this, Monaco is very safe as well - besides the odd jewelry armed robbery, much better than Nice in that regard although i like Niceas well .
Emirates is also flying to Nice btw, so good connections to the Middle East and Asia.
And yes Monaco appears *very* weallthy, hence I'm surprised the entrance ticket in a tax haven in the heart of Europe is so low (to put things in perspective even when investing 2 million sgd, one don't seem able to get a residency permit in Singapore anymore, because the country is getting so picky.
I still wonder about hidden problems when settling in Monaco, even Malaysia requires a bigger investment to move in, and it is a far less atractive destination for most european HNWs.
 
luisHK said:
I still wonder about hidden problems when settling in Monaco, even Malaysia requires a bigger investment to move in, and it is a far less atractive destination for most european HNWs.
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By problems do you mean ones created by where you are living? I am thinking that as long as you have the bank attestation and the documents (electric, telephone bills) for 3 months the residency and 0% Monaco taxation is not going to be an issue. The problems may come from the local tax authorities (likely French) where you spend the bulk of your time. If they can prove that you are resident in France by way of schools, clubs, links, bills, days residency, working from France then you are going to be on the hook for French taxes. To do the studio flat work around I fear you would have to 'go dark' much of the year which is fine if you don't have family but not an option if you do. I guess to do it properly you would need to pony up for a decent place in Monaco which is going to be a lot of cash, but could still be worthwhile for some.
 
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