The market cannot defeat you

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

It is the trader who place their stops in the wrong areas with a position size on that is too large. The market does not place the stops.
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But the market will go out of it's way to make sure it runs as many stops as possible, even when these stops are placed outside of noise.

I for my part don't care being stopped out. What really makes me angry is to be wiggled out of a position if the market actually goes the way I had expected.

Either way it is tough. If one initiates a position as it breaks support one has to place a stop above previous resistance. If one initiates the same trade at resistance all the buy stops above resistance can run you over too...

It's not so easy, unless you have a lot of experience, patience and funds to hold everything over.
 
Quote from optionpro007:

I take objection to this statement.

It is obvious the futures markets are designed to run as many stops as possible and hurt as many of the little guys (inexperienced with small grubstakes) inclusive.

If it wasn't like this, all of my trades would be winners....
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Is it the markets fault your stops are too tight ?

Is it the markets fault you were impatient and had a poor entry which causes you to get stopped out right before the big move ?


What makes trading so difficult is you have to be right 3 times just to make money on 1 trade. The entry, exit and the stop.
 
Quote from optionpro007:

I take objection to this statement.

It is obvious the futures markets are designed to run as many stops as possible and hurt as many of the little guys (inexperienced with small grubstakes) inclusive.
More...

Interesting observation...

don't you think also that the brokers/FCMs/clearers are able to use their information about the retail traders stops, the position of the limit orders with small size and their P&L in realtime so to wipe the most of them with greatest damage?

No-no, this is not paranoia, just a thought about an informative edge that big players have... IMHO.
 
Quote from Bernard111:

Interesting observation...

don't you think also that the brokers/FCM/clearers are able to use their information about the retail traders stops, the position of the limit orders with small size and their P&L in realtime so to wipe the most of them with greatest damage?

No-no, this is not paranoia, just a thought about an informative edge that big players have... IMHO.
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If this were the case how do you think they would actually profit from it? They would push the market to the retail stops, then once all stops were elected they would push it back the other way? If they could really push the market like that they would have no use to run stops...just push it where they need it to go. I think it is just a little paranoia. Absolutely no offense meant. I just think it would be hard to do. Look at the size going off in the ES sometime. I really dont think they are looking for your stops. They just dont care. good trading jim
 
Quote from jim c:

If this were the case how do you think they would actually profit from it? They would push the market to the retail stops, then once all stops were elected they would push it back the other way? If they could really push the market like that they would have no use to run stops...just push it where they need it to go. I think it is just a little paranoia. Absolutely no offense meant. I just think it would be hard to do. Look at the size going off in the ES sometime. I really dont think they are looking for your stops. They just dont care. good trading jim
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I'm not simply referring to stops...at all!

I mean the overall positions of retail traders...

...just try putting a limit order that is not 'correct' according to the underlying cash mkt in certain moments and you would see what I meant.

Really paranoia...?!

Any other comments?
 
Quote from Bernard111:

I'm not simply referring to stops...at all!

I mean the overall positions of retail traders...

...just try putting a limit order that is not 'correct' according to the underlying cash mkt in certain moments and you would see what I meant.

Really paranoia...?!

Any other comments?
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I really cant belive you would take your hard earned money and trade a market that you KNOW is manipulated. Blackjack would be a much better game. How do you think they know where all the retail orders are? How could one find out such information? good trading jim
 
Nature is perfect, markets, in some twisted way, reflect nature's basic module of survival. There is always a big fish to eat the small fish. Become invisible to the larger fish :)
 

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You guys have to be kidding me.

Do you really think that it is just coincidence that "90%" traders lose money ?
That 50% of all futures accounts being open today will be wiped out in 6 months ?

It is not just coincidence. It can't be.

If the markets were not geared to take your money away everybody would be rich trading.
 
Quote from romik:

Nature is perfect, markets, in some twisted way, reflect nature's basic module of survival. There is always a big fish to eat the small fish. Become invisible to the larger fish :)
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looks like B1S2 up top & romik riding shotgun.:)
 
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