The main reason why doing business with these get-funded programs is a bad idea...

[trade2020]

Okay. So, basically, the maximum amount of funding TopStep ever will provide a trader is $5000.

That pretty much confirms what I said one page one which is that your firm and similar firms are not really looking to fund/stake traders. That's not your main agenda / business model.

Earn2Trade are at least implicitly honest about this as they have a disclaimer which states the high failure rate (it's above 80 %) for just passing their programs. Seeing how they're still in business it goes without saying that the money in this business comes from collecting risk-free Combine fees and resets.

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And this method that Topstep uses on funded live accounts is different from what other firms use

For comparison - let's see how it differs from FTMO using the same example of the $20,000 generated profit and withdrawing all $20,000

FTMO does not have a $150,000 account (Topstep's $150,000 account has $4,500 Max Total DD) FTMO either has a $100,000 account with Max Total drawdown of $10,000 or a $200,000 account with Max Total Drawdown of $20,000. So I guess a fair comparison then to Topstep's $150,000 account would be to split the difference - so if FTMO had a $150,000 account then it would have a $15,000 Max Total Drawdown. So your FTMO account is $150,000 starting balance and you have a $15,000 max total drawdown --in the case of FTMO it is considered a fixed max drawdown below the zero line (which $15,000 below $150,000 starting balance which would be $135,000) --fixed-- meaning it stays the same even if you withdraw 100% of your profits every pay period

You start you funding live account and in the 1st week you do not violate any rules and you generate $20,000 in profits. Your account balance now is $170,000. You then request to withdraw all $20,000. With FTMO your beginning profit split is 80-20 (you do have the opportunity over time to have
that increase to 90-10 - SEE: https://ftmo.com/en/scaling-plan/
You receive $16,000 (plus they also in addition refund your challenge fee whatever that was). After the payout - Your account balance is now $150,000 (the starting balance) however you still have the full $15,000 drawdown (their risk funding) to trade with.

Whereas—-with Topstep as shown in the above example--if you withdraw all profits you would have no more drawdown available (i.e. no more funding from them on your funded acct to trade with)

Also keep in mind that we were using a hypothetical $150,000 account as FTMO only offers either a $100,000 account with Max Total drawdown of $10,000 or a $200,000 account with Max Total Drawdown of $20,000. So if you used either of these in the same scenario as above --after withdrawing all $20,000 in profits you would still either have $10,000 in available risk funding below zero line with $100,000 FTMO account or $20,000 in available risk funding below zero line with $200,000 FTMO account.

That is my opinion and how I understand the differences of how FTMO live funded accounts are handled after full withdraws VS Topstep - if I am wrong please clarify and correct

 

[Laissez Faire]

That is my opinion and how I understand the differences of how FTMO live funded accounts are handled after full withdraws VS Topstep - if I am wrong please clarify and correct

Interesting.

 

[ZTrader888]

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And this method that Topstep uses on funded live accounts is different from what other firms use

For comparison - let's see how it differs from FTMO using the same example of the $20,000 generated profit and withdrawing all $20,000

FTMO does not have a $150,000 account (Topstep's $150,000 account has $4,500 Max Total DD) FTMO either has a $100,000 account with Max Total drawdown of $10,000 or a $200,000 account with Max Total Drawdown of $20,000. So I guess a fair comparison then to Topstep's $150,000 account would be to split the difference - so if FTMO had a $150,000 account then it would have a $15,000 Max Total Drawdown. So your FTMO account is $150,000 starting balance and you have a $15,000 max total drawdown --in the case of FTMO it is considered a fixed max drawdown below the zero line (which $15,000 below $150,000 starting balance which would be $135,000) --fixed-- meaning it stays the same even if you withdraw 100% of your profits every pay period

You start you funding live account and in the 1st week you do not violate any rules and you generate $20,000 in profits. Your account balance now is $170,000. You then request to withdraw all $20,000. With FTMO your beginning profit split is 80-20 (you do have the opportunity over time to have
that increase to 90-10 - SEE: https://ftmo.com/en/scaling-plan/
You receive $16,000 (plus they also in addition refund your challenge fee whatever that was). After the payout - Your account balance is now $150,000 (the starting balance) however you still have the full $15,000 drawdown (their risk funding) to trade with.

Whereas—-with Topstep as shown in the above example--if you withdraw all profits you would have no more drawdown available (i.e. no more funding from them on your funded acct to trade with)

Also keep in mind that we were using a hypothetical $150,000 account as FTMO only offers either a $100,000 account with Max Total drawdown of $10,000 or a $200,000 account with Max Total Drawdown of $20,000. So if you used either of these in the same scenario as above --after withdrawing all $20,000 in profits you would still either have $10,000 in available risk funding below zero line with $100,000 FTMO account or $20,000 in available risk funding below zero line with $200,000 FTMO account.

That is my opinion and how I understand the differences of how FTMO live funded accounts are handled after full withdraws VS Topstep - if I am wrong please clarify and correct

Do you have any experience with the Meta Trader platforms? How reliable is the datafeed? Thanks.

 

[trade2020]

Do you have any experience with the Meta Trader platforms? How reliable is the datafeed? Thanks.

I have 1GB Up/Down hardwired connection for my desktop computer. Never experienced any connection issues with MetaTrader MT4 or any other platform I’ve used TradeStation and TOS

 

[Topstep]

Okay. So, basically, the maximum amount of funding TopStep ever will provide a trader is $5000.

That pretty much confirms what I said one page one which is that your firm and similar firms are not really looking to fund/stake traders. That's not your main agenda / business model.

Earn2Trade are at least implicitly honest about this as they have a disclaimer which states the high failure rate (it's above 80 %) for just passing their programs. Seeing how they're still in business it goes without saying that the money in this business comes from collecting risk-free Combine fees and resets.

We have pass stats on our website as well. Approximately 22% pass the Trading Combine.

It is our main business model to fund traders and that is why traders trade with us, if we didn't fund traders then no one would join the program. That is the ultimate prize of passing the Trading Combine. Not every trader has $5,000 to drop into an account and begin trading. Some traders might not think they are ready to trade a personal account yet so they use a prop firm like Topstep to get real market experience without having to pay full price for their mistakes.

If we give a trader $5,000 and they just lose all of it. Topstep loses $5,000. That sure feels like we are backing traders.

 

[Laissez Faire]

If we give a trader $5,000 and they just lose all of it. Topstep loses $5,000. That sure feels like we are backing traders.

Yes. Just nice to have clarified that $5000 is all a trader will ever get.

Earlier, I actually thought you would back traders with an even larger stake if he proved himself after getting funded.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[trade2020]

Yes. Just nice to have clarified that $5000 is all a trader will ever get.

Earlier, I actually thought you would back traders with an even larger stake if he proved himself after getting funded.

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes--thank you for clarifying. The difference is that there are firms that will fund traders ongoingly (by allowing them to withdraw all their profits down to zero every available payout--and still have full risk funding from the firm of $5,000 to $20,000+ the next trading day after all of their profits have been withdrawn)---not just for $5,000 one-time.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Yes--thank you for clarifying. The difference is that there are firms that will fund traders ongoingly (by allowing them to withdraw all their profits down to zero every available payout--and still have full risk funding from the firm of $5,000 to $20,000+ the next trading day after all of their profits have been withdrawn)---not just for $5,000 one-time.

That's a huge difference, IMO.

Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the subscribers at @Topstep and similar firms know up front that the only funding they ever get (at best) is $5K. I'm not sure many knows that.

Can still be a good deal if you know how to trade, but lack funds, though.

As you've shown, there seems to be better firms, though. Only problem from my POV with the firms you mentioned is that they offer CFDs for the indexes and I have no experience with that. So, for me, might not be suitable.

 

[Topstep]

Comparing FX prop firms to futures only prop firms is very difficult to do. Different markets and therefor different risk profiles for traders.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Comparing FX prop firms to futures only prop firms is very difficult to do. Different markets and therefor different risk profiles for traders.

Maybe.

But the fact that the FX firms mentioned by @trade2020 allows you to withdraw your full profit and still have the "initial funding" provided should be the same for both type of firms.