The Long Retreat of Liberalism

[Ricter]

I mentioned the high, "oppressive", tax rates in those "more free" countries at the top of the Heritage list, but what do their governments do with all the money they steal from their populace? That's right, they spend it on... wait for it... each other! Lots of spending on great, big, welfare programs. If they're not socialist I'd hate to see what socialist is.

http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/03/government-spending-as-percentage-of.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
More biased holier-than-thou nonsense. I never said it was all encompassing or most significant and even specifically said I don't believe it's all encompassing but despite all that, you pretend to know what I think ("you think somehow that it's all encompassing and most significant"). You also summarily dismissed my points and falsely claimed I insist that only I know what constitutes a crisis ("still you insist that you and you alone are qualified to define what constitutes a crisis"). So who's really being childish? As I said... go play your games with someone else.

Huh? Are you having trouble with basic logic, mate? Let me reiterate what I have been saying all along.

The original article states:
"For, from Greece to Ireland to Portugal to Italy, from California to Wisconsin to New Jersey to New York, the crisis of the West is a crisis of liberalism."

I suggest that this statement is false and silly, because:
a) Scandinavian countries are part of the West, they're liberal and they're not in crisis, as evidenced by a whole variety of metrics that I have mentioned.
b) Conversely, Ireland is not a "liberal" country, but it is in crisis.

I hope this is sufficiently clear.

 

[Trader666]

Oh please... you've discombobulated point after point and didn't admit you have a bias until I boxed you into a corner, so drop the holier-than-thou nonsense.

You gave Denmark, Sweden, and Norway as examples of where "liberalism is successful." I say that their oppressive tax burdens that have risen faster than GDP alone are a crisis of liberalism. Period.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...o-US-taxes-compare-internationally-2006_2.gif I wouldn't have included Ireland had I written the article.

I hope this is clear and you can understand it as written, without distorting it beyond recognition.

Quote from Martinghoul:

Huh? Are you having trouble with basic logic, mate? Let me reiterate what I have been saying all along.

The original article states:
"For, from Greece to Ireland to Portugal to Italy, from California to Wisconsin to New Jersey to New York, the crisis of the West is a crisis of liberalism."

I suggest that this statement is false and silly, because:
a) Scandinavian countries are part of the West, they're liberal and they're not in crisis, as evidenced by a whole variety of metrics that I have mentioned.
b) Conversely, Ireland is not a "liberal" country, but it is in crisis.

I hope this is sufficiently clear.

 

[Martinghoul]

So which of my two statements, a), b), both or neither, are you specifically in disagreement with?

 

[Trader666]

Your whole argument is off base. Just as you've discombobulated much of what I've written, you've discombobulated the statement you quoted from the article to the point that you think you can refute it with your "counterexamples." Let's take California, Wisconsin, New Jersey and New York which were specifically mentioned in that quote. NONE of those states is "in crisis" by "a whole variety of metrics" but ALL have crises of liberalism. Period. You're seeing things that are not there. It's that simple.

Quote from Martinghoul:

So which of my two statements, a), b), both or neither, are you specifically in disagreement with?

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
Your whole argument is off base. Just as you've discombobulated much of what I've written, you've discombobulated the statement you quoted from the article to the point that you think you can refute it with your "counterexamples." Let's take California, Wisconsin, New Jersey and New York which were specifically mentioned in that quote. NONE of those states is "in crisis" by "a whole variety of metrics" but ALL have crises of liberalism. Period. You're seeing things that are not there. It's that simple.

Incorrect... I have quoted the author of the article verbatim. The exact statement was: "For, from Greece to Ireland to Portugal to Italy, from California to Wisconsin to New Jersey to New York, the crisis of the West is a crisis of liberalism". I have nothing to say and haven't said anything about California, Wisconsin, New Jersey and New York, as I know nothing about what's happening there.

Now, be so kind to pls answer my question.

 

[Trader666]

Wrong. You missed the entire point of the article. What part of my last post didn't you understand? Or are you being a troll?

Quote from Martinghoul:

Incorrect... I have quoted the author of the article verbatim. The exact statement was: "For, from Greece to Ireland to Portugal to Italy, from California to Wisconsin to New Jersey to New York, the crisis of the West is a crisis of liberalism". I have nothing to say and haven't said anything about California, Wisconsin, New Jersey and New York, as I know nothing about what's happening there.

Now, be so kind to pls answer my question.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
Wrong. You missed the entire point of the article. What part of my last post didn't you understand? Or are you being a troll?

Where did I say anything about "the entire point of the article"? This has nothing to do with my argument, so I have no idea why you would bring it up. If I misquoted the statement made by the author, pls don't hesitate to say so.

Otherwise, finally and for the last time, are you capable and willing to respond to my extremely specific simple question?

 

[Trader666]

You've read more into the statement you quoted than is there, therefore your "reason a" for suggesting it's "false and silly" is not valid.

Quote from Martinghoul:

Where did I say anything about "the entire point of the article"? This has nothing to do with my argument, so I have no idea why you would bring it up. If I misquoted the statement made by the author, pls don't hesitate to say so.

Otherwise, finally and for the last time, are you capable and willing to respond to my extremely specific simple question?

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
You've read more into the statement you quoted than is there, therefore your "reason a" for suggesting it's "false and silly" is not valid.

I haven't read anything into anything. I am just asking you to answer a simple question, nothing more, nothing less. How hard can that be?