The lonely game -VS- My own company

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from Ripley:

Even though my employees sign various nondisclosure agreements, I would never let them know of my exact strategies. I have my research functions separated into batch processes, and the rest are administrative and support functions that are handled in house.

My strategies would never be exposed on anyone under any circumstance. No matter how many nondisclosure agreements or non compete agreements they sign. I have made a small mistake initially, and I have learned well.

Aha,

so your job is to search for setups to trade ?

Then you give orders to your guys to do the trade an manage it ?

While you are watching the chart and managing it there ?

Or are your guys on their own, when they got into a trade, do they know when to exit a position and why ?
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Yes, if you would share your secrets, its like free money and throw away your lifes work, i know that very well.

You only can trust other people to a certain point, but when there comes money into the relation, it seems to get more and more complicated, not even to talk about knowledge what is worth many of tens of millions if you use it correct.
-----------------------------------
If you would trade only your own money, you could do everything alone, couldnt you ?

But with a hedge fund, you need of course a few people for all the administrative and paper work, like collecting money from investors and doing advertising or whatever ?
-------------------------------------

So, if this is how you run your business, then you are still the high head over it and you still have the most work to do, you still controll you trades, at least on the charts, dont you ?

Thanks

Best,

HTR

 

[Zr1Trader]

Quote from oldtime:

I would agree, except the part about the solid group. I find that whenever I talk about what I'm going to do I feel locked in.

It started when I was a broker and I spent all day convincing clients to get long, then I felt frozen when I could easily see there was a good opportunity short.

Stay lonely, stay free

I know what you mean which is precisely why I don't like posting live trades or intentions anywhere. The ego can get in the way which is why I don't do that on twitter or anywhere else. I just like to talk about the action of the day, what is moving, pointing out some patterns , headlines, joking around ect. It avoids any ego contradiction yet adds some some value and entertainment.

 

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from Zr1Trader:

Trading solo, is lonely yes. Music, tv, a movie in the background, Social networking during the trading day can mix it up. Get a solid group on twitter to follow/converse with throughout the trading day. The best thing is to have a hobby/fun activity to look forward to after the trading day.

Yep, i know this all.

I stopped watching TV 2,5 years ago, because all this negative nonsense their made me sick, while i fought my way to success in trading, i only needed positivity in my mind and life.

Music and radio is great.

The most time i am reading books and learning spanish and english.
The other time i do setup training what means backtesting my setups and making statistics about it....
While i manage my trades and watching out for new setups.

The problem is i am a 24 trader, and there is no really end of the day, the FX and the commodities i trade, are mostly almost 24 hours markets like, wheat, corn, oil, gold....
And i dont like to trade the other markets which having a break of at least a half day, because on the almost 24h markets - i have the most volume and the money is made in the quickest way.
I wont change that....

I am just working from Monday 00:00 New york time to Friday US Stock market close, nonstop....
Only on the weekend i can relax, at least i try.

But as soon the markets open, i feel much better. Often enough i find its a waste of time, when the markets are closed or there are holidays in the USA and there is no volume on the markets.

I also, like to make a break of a few days, after a good trade and travel a little bit around or do mountain hiking.

But this all is not really a hobbie.

I am just a workaholic and i am afraid if i would change anything i would stop making money.

I just have to be focused in my elements "the markets" to make money. This business is not easy, regardless to everything else i always say to myself. Yes its easy, but it needs time to work, trade for trade, you know what i am talking about.

 

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from Handle123:

HTR, you can always teach someone, helps with interaction of one's day. I take three students a year and work with them up to two years. They wire a healthy amount into like a joint account to make sure they are in earnest and rest of the fee comes out of their profits, if after so many months, they still don't get it, I refund that account. But you never teach them everything till close to the end.

And no, I can't handle any more students. Don't even ask.

LOL

I dont need a teacher, maybe i could you teach the one or other thing. LOL

Thanks,

i know this is a good thing to do. I already teached one person and it was a good feeling and i know he is doing good with my stuff, at least i know he has understood all and know how to make at least a good living out of it, and i know, he know how to make it big.

But thats another subject, than running a own trading company with at least 10 employers and having fun with the people - eye to eye.

 

[Ripley]

Quote from HATEtheRisk:

Aha,

so your job is to search for setups to trade ?

Then you give orders to your guys to do the trade an manage it ?

While you are watching the chart and managing it there ?

Or are your guys on their own, when they got into a trader, do they know when to exit a position and why ?
-----------------------------------
Yes, if you would share your secrets, its like free money and throw away your lifes work, i know that very well.

You only can trust other people to a certain point, but when there comes money into the relation, it seems to get more and more complicated, not even to talk about knowledge what is worth many of tens of millions if you use it correct.
-----------------------------------
If you would trade only your own money, you could do everything alone, couldnt you ?

But with a hedge fund, you need of course a few people for all the administrative and paper work, like collecting money from investors and doing advertising or whatever ?
-------------------------------------

So, if this is how you run your business, then you are still the high head over it and you still have the most work to do, you still controll you trades, at least on the charts, dont you ?

Thanks

Best,

HTR

I take concentrated and sizeable positions, and the research analysts bring me the best whys and why nots and I make the decision as to when to buy and when to sell, based on my own metrics.

And my positions are held for the longer term as well, definitely not day trading and thus have more time to decide when to get out etc.

If I was just trading my own money, I would do it myself, with one or two administrative assistants.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Zr1Trader:

I know what you mean which is precisely why I don't like posting live trades or intentions anywhere. The ego can get in the way which is why I don't do that on twitter or anywhere else. I just like to talk about the action of the day, what is moving, pointing out some patterns , headlines, joking around ect. It avoids any ego contradiction yet adds some some value and entertainment.

I hear ya

 

[KDASFTG]

Greetings HTR,

I'm glad to see that you've had a bit of an personal "attitude adjustment" for the better. People can change, and personal growth is a good thing. In the past, I have enjoyed the enthusiasm, and the matter of fact manner, in which you addressed some threads. But your off tone commentary oftimes left me cold. In any case, glad to see that a "better you" is back.

Now regarding your post. A friend of mine found one way to be very useful to find highly motivated candidates to help him with his trading business. He used the "Trading Club" approach. He started by using free advertising in his community newsletter for people who would be interested in sharing Stock Options Trading ideas with a profitable trader.

In time, his group grew by word of mouth, well outside the bounds of the community, until he now has more volunteers then he has work. I believe the economy has a lot to do with his recent influx.

He asked for research to be done in a certain area, and then he provided the format checklist of the things required. The members provided the leg work/research, and he shared his trading signals and knowledge with them in a timely fashion.

In addition, some members have asked him to provide training, on how to do it for themselves. To hear him talk, it has turned out to be a big win-win for both parties.

As he is an "older fart" like me, he loves to lead the group, and he says the group has surprisingly insightful interaction in most of the meetings and training sessions. He also says that people have come and gone, but he still has a loyal core, which provides the lionshare of the work/research, and the fun.

He still conducts bi-monthly meetings to discuss new ideas and trading progress. Needless to state, he is a quite popular figure in his community.

You might want to consider doing something similar. Again, it looks like a win-win for both parties.

In any case, just food for thought, and I welcome back the new you.

KDASFTG

 

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from Ripley:

I take concentrated and sizeable positions, and the research analysts bring me the best whys and why nots and I make the decision as to when to buy and when to sell, based on my own metrics.

And my positions are held for the longer term as well, definitely not day trading and thus have more time to decide when to get out etc.

If I was just trading my own money, I would do it myself, with one or two administrative assistants.

Ok.

That sounds strange to me.

So, do you really need the analysts guys ?
You still could do it on your own or would this be too much work ?

I would do it the other way. I know when and why to go in and out of a trade and the employers could manage the trade.
I could teach them the Exit Signals, what would absolutely all i would teach them, so they are on their own with the trade.

Still i would have a lot of work to do: Searching Setups, Watching them until they start.... That would be all !!!

I for example, only need charts and the news economic calender to analyse the markets.

I am 90% a swing trader, for trades of 1 - 3 days average.
But i also do sometimes day trades, but there is no need for it, its just to fill the time, between the big trades.

I also could do longer time trades, where i hold trades for 1 - 3 weeks on average - but i dont do it- theres no need for it - i prefer switching between different setups in the shortest possible time.

So in my case, i would just do the opposite of your job.

But if i teach my guys how to exit a trade, what is not so a problem, means they could not find a connection to the whole strategies function. But i would must teach them at least one indicator i use for some of my exit signals.

So i would have the half of my work seperated to the shoulders of other peoples. While they are managing the trades and controlling the risk, i could watch the charts and search for new setups for possible switching. While a other guy is monitoring the total capital risk and expected profit on the current trades and on possible new trades i tell him/her.

Not bad.
Now, i have at least a better image of how it could work.

Thanks a lot.

Best,

HTR

 

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from KDASFTG:

Greetings HTR,

I'm glad to see that you've had a bit of an personal "attitude adjustment" for the better. People can change, and personal growth is a good thing. In the past, I have enjoyed the enthusiasm, and the matter of fact manner, in which you addressed some threads. But your off tone commentary oftimes left me cold. In any case, glad to see that a "better you" is back.

Now regarding your post. A friend of mine found one way to be very useful to find highly motivated candidates to help him with his trading business. He used the "Trading Club" approach. He started by using free advertising in his community newsletter for people who would be interested in sharing Stock Options Trading ideas with a profitable trader.

In time, his group grew by word of mouth, well outside the bounds of the community, until he now has more volunteers then he has work. I believe the economy has a lot to do with his recent influx.

He asked for research to be done in a certain area, and then he provided the format checklist of the things required. The members provided the leg work/research, and he shared his trading signals and knowledge with them in a timely fashion.

In addition, some members have asked him to provide training, on how to do it for themselves. To hear him talk, it has turned out to be a big win-win for both parties.

As he is an "older fart" like me, he loves to lead the group, and he says the group has surprisingly insightful interaction in most of the meetings and training sessions. He also says that people have come and gone, but he still has a loyal core, which provides the lionshare of the work/research, and the fun.

He still conducts bi-monthly meetings to discuss new ideas and trading progress. Needless to state, he is a quite popular figure in his community.

You might want to consider doing something similar. Again, it looks like a win-win for both parties.

In any case, just food for thought, and I welcome back the new you.

KDASFTG

Dear KDASFTG,

i apologize again for my not quite correct behaviour posts.
It seems something changed inside myself the last months.
Actually i am a pretty friendly guy.

Thank you for your welcome back.

-----------------------------------------

Very interesting how your friend is doing this.
A local community trading group, but not really a trading company in my terms. Please correct me !

Do this people actually trade his money or their own ?
Is he then more a teacher, than a manager boss ?

What do you think about my last post, with let people do my trades including teaching them the exit signals.
That could be a way that works ?

Of course to find good people i can trust and who can care responsibility is a little bit of a challenge. But people do not go to university and make bachelors for nothing.
I guess a lot of people would be happy to get paid over $100k a year for doing easy things.
Because what they would have to do, is not difficult, its just a manuall robot job, but it must be done.

A local trading community is not what i want, also i wont be a teacher anymore - i just thinking about being a boss and grow my company big, so that i can say, i have a own company and i am better than you individual traders. LOL
While i could make the same amount of money as individual in private banking. LOL

Also a lot of work would be in making statistics, but then the statistican needs to know the strategies. Thats difficult to seperate that into several parts.
Actually i am the statistican first in my business. Second comes the trader.

Nice thought.

Thanks a lot.

Best,

HTR

 

[peilthetraveler]

Here is your solution. Hire someone young that doesnt have any money. That way even though they know your secrets, they have no money to work with. Who cares if they know your "secrets" when by every Friday, they have less than $20 in their checking accounts. What are they going to do? Fund their own account with $100 and suddenly become millionaires? I don't care how good your system is, it ain't THAT good. But if by some miracle it is that good...Allow me to come work for you for free. hehehe