The Limits of Diplomacy

[AAAintheBeltway]

So-called deep thinkers seem unanimous that Israel must agree to a cease fire and begin negotiations with Lebanonand/or Hezbollah. For the life of me, I can't see the point of it.

First, Lebanon is insisting on a withdrawal prior to negotiations. Since the point of a deal would be to pave the way for a peace-keeping force to be placed in southern Labanon, it makes no sense to allow Hezbollah free reign again in the interim.

Second, Israel is insisting that Hezbollah disarm, and in fact, no country wants to put troops in there if they will be subject to attacks from Hezbollah. Hezbollah has no intention of disarming, and will only coexist with a force like UNIFIL that gives them freedom to operate.

Third, how do you negotiate with an enemy whose objective is to destroy your country and kill your citizens? What is an acceptable middle ground? Kill half your citizens? It's not like Hezbollah or its Iranian masters have made a secret of this.

I hate to see innocent Lebanese suffer, but there are consequences to having terrorists operating in your country and being part of your government. This will end only when there are new governments in Syria and Iran, particularly Iran. We are kidding ourselves to think otherwise.

 

[sulong]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



Third, how do you negotiate with an enemy whose objective is to destroy your country and kill your citizens? What is an acceptable middle ground? Kill half your citizens? It's not like Hezbollah or its Iranian masters have made a secret of this.

When a reasonable person lives in a bad neighborhood, and finds themselves in a continual combative situation with the neighbors, they usually smarten up and start shopping around for a better neighborhood to live in.
It hasn't been that long ago that Israel bought/stole/acquired/squatted whatever, that piece of real estate their on.
“If” the Israelis wanted to live in piece, “if” that was the goal, it's reasonable to to think they would put up a for sale sign and start shopping for a better home.

Hell, they could buy an island or something.
But they don't do that. Which leads us to believe that “peace” is not the goal.
Israel is getting exactly what they want.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Let's see. Where shall I live?

In a neighborhood where they tribes kill each other constantly and hate my kind?

Yep, that's the ticket...

Quote from sulong:

When a reasonable person lives in a bad neighborhood, and finds themselves in a continual combative situation with the neighbors, they usually smarten up and start shopping around for a better neighborhood to live in.
It hasn't been that long ago that Israel bought/stole/acquired/squatted whatever, that piece of real estate their on.
“If” the Israelis wanted to live in piece, “if” that was the goal, it's reasonable to to think they would put up a for sale sign and start shopping for a better home.

Hell, they could buy an island or something.
But they don't do that. Which leads us to believe that “peace” is not the goal.
Israel is getting exactly what they want.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from sulong:

When a reasonable person lives in a bad neighborhood, and finds themselves in a continual combative situation with the neighbors, they usually smarten up and start shopping around for a better neighborhood to live in.
It hasn't been that long ago that Israel bought/stole/acquired/squatted whatever, that piece of real estate their on.
“If” the Israelis wanted to live in piece, “if” that was the goal, it's reasonable to to think they would put up a for sale sign and start shopping for a better home.

Hell, they could buy an island or something.
But they don't do that. Which leads us to believe that “peace” is not the goal.
Israel is getting exactly what they want.

I am glad you agree that Israel is in a bad neighborhood, I hope you won't mind if they instead of moving as you suggest, try to clean it up. Come to think about it, maybe the "innocent" Lebanese civilians should put up a for sale sign. Hey, they live in a bad neighborhood too. What do you think?

Quote from sulong:

But they don't do that. Which leads us to believe that “peace” is not the goal.

Amazing lack of logic, you admit that israel lives in a bad neighborhood and blame the violence on them all in one post.

 

[Arnie]

Cease fires and negoitiations simply haven't worked. Israel should flatten the whole southern portion of Lebanon so that scum has nowhere to hide.

 

[Pabst]

Hezbollah didn't declare war on Israel. Clearly this was an attempt to create a prisoner exchange like many in the past. I'm sure Hezbollah was as shocked as anyone by Israel's response.

Israel isn't stupid. They know that any waiting game, any refusal to quickly confront the situation in both Palestine and Lebanon works to their disadvantage. The West is rapidly electing "peacenick" leaders who are anti-Israel. The Islamic nations in turn are becoming more populated, better funded and increasingly technologically advanced. Thus Israel is forced into being the new aggressor. The Arabs should take the attitude, "if we don't get you today we'll get you to-morrow." Israel knows to-morrow comes quickly and in the future Israel's military preeminence in the region may be a distant memory.

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

So-called deep thinkers seem unanimous that Israel must agree to a cease fire and begin negotiations with Lebanonand/or Hezbollah. For the life of me, I can't see the point of it.

First, Lebanon is insisting on a withdrawal prior to negotiations. Since the point of a deal would be to pave the way for a peace-keeping force to be placed in southern Labanon, it makes no sense to allow Hezbollah free reign again in the interim.

Second, Israel is insisting that Hezbollah disarm, and in fact, no country wants to put troops in there if they will be subject to attacks from Hezbollah. Hezbollah has no intention of disarming, and will only coexist with a force like UNIFIL that gives them freedom to operate.

Third, how do you negotiate with an enemy whose objective is to destroy your country and kill your citizens? What is an acceptable middle ground? Kill half your citizens? It's not like Hezbollah or its Iranian masters have made a secret of this.

I hate to see innocent Lebanese suffer, but there are consequences to having terrorists operating in your country and being part of your government. This will end only when there are new governments in Syria and Iran, particularly Iran. We are kidding ourselves to think otherwise.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from Pabst:

Hezbollah didn't declare war on Israel. Clearly this was an attempt to create a prisoner exchange like many in the past. I'm sure Hezbollah was as shocked as anyone by Israel's response.

Israel isn't stupid. They know that any waiting game, any refusal to quickly confront the situation in both Palestine and Lebanon works to their disadvantage. The West is rapidly electing "peacenick" leaders who are anti-Israel. The Islamic nations in turn are becoming more populated, better funded and increasingly technologically advanced. Thus Israel is forced into being the new aggressor. The Arabs should take the attitude, "if we don't get you today we'll get you to-morrow." Israel knows to-morrow comes quickly and in the future Israel's military preeminence in the region may be a distant memory.

I think you're right. Unfortunately, the logical conclusion to that line of reasoning is that Israel's rational course of action is an all out attack on Iran.

 

[sulong]

Quote from dddooo:


Amazing lack of logic, you admit that israel lives in a bad neighborhood and blame the violence on them all in one post.

No, I'm saying that Israel is ether a bunch of liars, or, they are stupid.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from sulong:

No, I'm saying that Israel is ether a bunch of liars, or, they are stupid.

Oh, I see, if they don't take your advice to move elsewhere - they are stupid, if they want to live in peace but instead of running with their tails between their legs they choose to stand up to violence and terror and defend their home - they are a bunch of liars.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

If Israel had a choice between peace somewhere else, and war where they are...opting for perpetual war rather than peace would be stupid, in the eyes of many reasonable people.

To you it is a macho thing to stay and fight continually, to others it is common sense to avoid conflict when it is not necessary to preserve both lives and quality of life....that is if Israel values the lives of their own people and/or quality of life.

Quote from dddooo:

Oh, I see, if they don't take your advice to move elsewhere - they are stupid, if they want to live in peace but instead of running with their tails between their legs they choose to stand up to violence and terror and defend their home - they are a bunch of liars.