the last 30 years since REAGAN ERA.. OUR STANDARD OF LIVING WAS ON BORROWED FUNDS

[darwin666]

JUST LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.. THE LAST 30 years. we have only been able to sustain our high standard of living by borrowing.. LIKE NO OTHER.. since there was no precedent and the world had faith in the USD we have abused this position to the hilt.. How the @Q$%^ are we going to pay back...?? 15 trillion.. god.. this figure is colossal.. OUR ENTITLEMENTs. / politicians have just kicked the can down the road.

http://2ndgreenrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/United-States-national-debt.png


so much for our american std of living and dream. the next recession. will and hit us LIKE NO OTHER!...

I love the phrase. BUT WAIT.. this time its DIFFERENT.!.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Quote from darwin666:

.. How the @Q$%^ are we going to pay back...??

.

Who said anything about paying it back?

 

[shortie]

Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:

Who said anything about paying it back?

you and I, I am afraid.


I believe the Soviet Union got into much debt and collapsed. But the debt was subsequently repaid more or less. If even the dirty commies paid off their debt, why would not the good capitalists?

 

[S2007S]

This entire economy as I have said a thousand times before is being inflated with nothing but huge amount of debt and worthless stimulus. Thats the only way this economy knows how to grow, there is no organic growth left in this economy, its all smoke and mirrors!

 

[trendy]

Quote from shortie:

you and I, I am afraid.


I believe the Soviet Union got into much debt and collapsed. But the debt was subsequently repaid more or less. If even the dirty commies paid off their debt, why would not the good capitalists?

Oh, we'll pay it back all right. That's where we have the advantage over the PIIGS. We run our own printing press. "Oh, you want the 14 Trillion we owe ya? No problem, come back in an hour, the ink is not dry yet."

 

[Halal Burger]

Ha ha, China has now claimed ownership of Texas. They don't want US toilet paper Dollars

 

[toc]

Quote from shortie:

I believe the Soviet Union got into much debt and collapsed. But the debt was subsequently repaid more or less. If even the dirty commies paid off their debt, why would not the good capitalists? [/B]

USSR collapsed because of

a) Weak leadership trying to do tough reforms and that too, very quickly.

b) The glorious Red Army betrayed its commitments at the most crucial time. There is a saying in Russia: That true patriotism ended with the Victory parade of WWII in 1945.

c) Misconceptions in the Russian minds of how West would treat them after they abandon communism. Chess Champion Russians were not outfoxed but their own foolishness got the better of themselves.

 

[darwin666]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/878ca006-782c-11e0-b90e-00144feabdc0.html

to quote. relevant portion of this article

Printing the world’s reserve currency has given the US a free lunch of sorts. Around $500bn worth of dollar bills circulate outside the US. Strong demand for US assets has resulted in lower long-term rates. America also earns a higher return on its overseas investments than it pays to foreign holders of US assets. The trouble is that America has abused this “exorbitant privilege” – a phrase first coined in the early 1960s by Gaullist finance minister and future French president Valery Giscard d’Estaing.



SO BASICALLY to win short term municipal , county, state all the way to federal elections, OUR POLITICANs have without shame kept on borrowing in the last 30 years and dug us into this hole..

but there is also another angle to this.. WHY the Q$#@% did the rest of the world feed this drug addict 800 lb gorilla.. they kept manufacturing and shipping to us to consume and we kept consuming.....

gee.. i think the golden age of the USA was the last 3 decades of consumption.. now our future generations.. the Gen Y and gen. what the heck is the next one?.. will have to figure out how to clean up the mess..

the sweet spot is someone who is 65 and fully drawing pension( state or something 3-4K a month) plus Social secuity 2K a month.. for working the last 35 years.. they are actually sucking out the system b4 it collapses...


i have heard some state troopers workk 20 years in state. then move to local police. and get another 30 years or somethnig and then retire and draw both pensions.. not to forget SSN. ha ha.

prison guards fire fighter/teachers.. municipal workers.. doing OT and retiring with 60-80 K PA. for LIFE... ha ha..


as long as folks in China keep working and sending us their junk and gladly accept USD IOU dollars.. this will continue..

why 15 Trillion. .make the cap 100 trillion.. after a while what difference does a few zeroes make ?

 

[LeeD]

Quote from shortie:

I believe the Soviet Union got into much debt and collapsed.

The Soviet Union also had a severe short-term liquidity problem. (The kind of problem that will occur in the US if the debt limit isn't raised on time.) In fact, the government ran so low on cash that (state owned) ships carrying export good were at risk of being arrested because of unpaid port charges.

Quote from shortie:

But the debt was subsequently repaid more or less.

In fact, the Soviet debt was paid out by Russia alone.

That's how far growing oil prices can take the exporting state.

Quote from shortie:

If even the dirty commies paid off their debt, why would not the good capitalists?

In fact, america successfully refused to pay on its obligations a few times. First, it was loans from France for building railways... and just one century ago the gold standard was cancelled... and everyone (including foreign governments) who were under impression they would be repaid in gold, not paper, got stuck with dollar inflation that followed.

 

[LeeD]

Quote from toc:

USSR collapsed because of

a) Weak leadership trying to do tough reforms and that too, very quickly.

Reforms were much slower, less radical and more evenly paced than after the Union collapse.

If by weak leadership you solely mean dismantling KGB, then I could probably agree with you.

Quote from toc:

b) The glorious Red Army betrayed its commitments at the most crucial time. There is a saying in Russia: That true patriotism ended with the Victory parade of WWII in 1945.

This has nothing to do with patriotism.

Imagine the most influential ministers in US Government send allied military police unit to imprison the US president in his holiday residence and to keep secret service and press away from him. The vice president announces that the president is in a nervous breakdown beyond repair and he is forced to assumem teh presidential powers. He directs all TV stations to show only ballet.

Then governors of the Thirteen Colonies that fromed the US On July 4, 1776 declare that under the statutes set in Declaration of Independence they use their legal right to undo the United States and now every State is an independent country.

Who do you think would be more patriotic to support in this scenario? Elected President? Unelected Government? The State Governours?

Sounds absurd? But that's the events that lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's not lack of patriotism. It's just reluctance to take sides in what appeared like a constitutional dispute.

Quote from toc:

c) Misconceptions in the Russian minds of how West would treat them after they abandon communism. Chess Champion Russians were not outfoxed but their own foolishness got the better of themselves.

Nothing to do with "how West would treat them" - total nonsense. You are talking of "ordinary" people as some sort of collective conscience that directs the politics.

The collaps of the Soviet Union was archestrated by the most distinguished Communist leaders. So, it's them who stopped believing in communism first... and they were "treated by the West" very well. Especially Gorbachev; in Germany he is treated as a national hero who dismantled the soviet counterweight to NATO and made united Germany possible.