The joys of socialized medicine:

Yeah great system indeed....
a lazy bunch of people who then drive up the cost of their own health care by not taking care of themselves.



http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040607/

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Quote from TorontoTrader2:


Here in Canada we pay $0 extra per month (above taxes) and our standard of living and mortality rate is just fine.

U.S.A Ranking Low In Infant Mortality Rate

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Here is the issue with socialized medicine.
It removes the option of extravagant care. This is where the cost of a treatment is too expensive it can't be offered to everyone so instead it is offered to none.

Good example: helicopters.

NEW YORK – As a steady stream of celebrities pay their last respects to Natasha Richardson, questions are arising over whether a medical helicopter might have been able to save the ailing actress.

The province of Quebec lacks a medical helicopter system, common in the United States.
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Infant morality....This is an odd statistic. In some parts of the world. miscarriages are defined up until 9 months.

In the US we can save babies at 24 weeks , so we try and when it fails the infant is consider a person and it is a mortality. Few other countries could even attempt to save pre-mees that young.
 
i don't know why these 'socialized' threads keep coming up or why people
are against socialised healthcare
the Stafford hospital is a result of atrocious management not the system,
an equivalent of AIG

i'm not going to bother searching for the stats but possibly one million plus
Americans travel out of the US each year, receiving medical attention at a
large enough saving below US fees to pay for airline and hotel costs

the UK has a dual public/private system whereas Canada has public only,
the UK system causes wait-time or queue jumping depending on your pov

each province has their own plan, BC's Medical Services Plan
"The monthly rates are:
$54 for one person
$96 for a family of two
$108 for a family of three or more
The current adjusted net income thresholds are:
$20,000 - 100 percent subsidy
$22,000 - 80 percent subsidy
$24,000 - 60 percent subsidy
$26,000 - 40 percent subsidy
$28,000 - 20 percent subsidy"
not sure if the above includes free medication
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html
 
Quote from gangof4:

except for all the hookers on every street corner of Montreal, nearly everyone else i see in Canada is obese- hardly an American phenom.

seems every time i come across a post of yours you are shitting on the US with your not-so-subtle lack of capitalization of America or American, whilst Canada is always capitalized- what's that all 'aboot'. jesus, get over it. you're a piss ant country with a shit climate that depends on us like an infant does mamma's milk. i swear, 20% of your population has a severe case of Napoleon Complex, with yours more acute than most. jesus, it's not our fault that your heads come apart when you speak.

btw, just curious.... do you trade the Canadian market in all it's glory, or the markets of the hated US? yeah, that's what i thought.... you personally can't even make a living without us! irony.

as to health care- if you're a successful trader and/or have money... let's see what you decide to do if you need a major operation for something life threatening some day. you'll,

a. get on teh waiting list for annon-o-surgeon in the homeland. or,

b. head to the hated US like everyone else who has the means?

be honest.
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I used to respect your posts before I read this. I am Canadian and you, sir, have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Canada. Go read the other LENGTHY thread on this topic that shuts down the waiting list and lower quality of care argument...

And by the way, the TSX is massively outperforming American indexes since the shit hit the fan.

This is the last post I'll make on the whole Canada vs. USA topic because it always gets brought up and the argument never goes anywhere except into the shitter.
 
Quote from Mercor:

Here is the issue with socialized medicine.
It removes the option of extravagant care. This is where the cost of a treatment is too expensive it can't be offered to everyone so instead it is offered to none.

Good example: helicopters.

NEW YORK – As a steady stream of celebrities pay their last respects to Natasha Richardson, questions are arising over whether a medical helicopter might have been able to save the ailing actress.

The province of Quebec lacks a medical helicopter system, common in the United States.
________________
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No idea where you got this information...it is completely false. Do you honestly believe there are no medical helicopters in Canada/Quebec?! Come on man, we do not live in igloos and we've advanced into the flight era. Ignorance is frustrating.
 
Having a fairly good understanding of both systems ( I have good friends and relatives in Canada, always lived in the US ) there are a couple of differences.

1. Canada has a very good system for the population. Yes there are wait lines, but if you are really sick-hurt/dying you get bumped up in que. Everyone has access.

2. In the US we have the best medical treatments in the world, if you can afford it.
 
Tontotrader, you did not answer this question from gangof4, just curious why:

as to health care- if you're a successful trader and/or have money... let's see what you decide to do if you need a major operation for something life threatening some day. you'll,

a. get on teh waiting list for annon-o-surgeon in the homeland. or,

b. head to the hated US like everyone else who has the means?

be honest.
 
Quote from TorontoTrader2:

I'm 'sick' of the american rhetoric and jealousy. Their system is failing. Canada's is just fine and on another thread I posted stats showing that Canada's mortality rate is even better than in the USA.
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That's because your safety valve is the United States. If the Canadian wait list is too long, the Canadian in question can just pop over to the United States to pay to have the procedure performed with no wait time.

It's not a "my country is better than your country thing". I lived in countries with socialized medicine before immigrating to the U.S. The medical system here is far superior to socialized medicine.

However, the government has worked ceaselessly to screw everything up and then blame it on lack of more government involvement (government rationed medicine). Thus, we have a hybrid socialized system which is completely and horrifically inefficient. The answer is to get government completely out of healthcare, not to copy the Canadians.
 
Here's an example of how the U.S. government and local governments thwart the efforts of health care providers to actually provide health care.

The state is trying to shut down a New York City doctor’s ambitious plan to treat uninsured patients for around $1,000 a year. Dr. John Muney (pictured above) offers his patients everything from mammograms to mole removal at his AMG Medical Group clinics, which operate in all five boroughs. His patients agree to pay $79 a month for a year in return for unlimited office visits with a $10 co-pay.
“I’m trying to help uninsured people here,” he said.

But his plan landed him in the crosshairs of the state Insurance Department, which ordered him to drop his fixed-rate plan - which it claims is equivalent to an insurance policy. Muney insists it is not insurance because it doesn’t cover anything that he can’t do in his offices, like complicated surgery. He points out his offices do not operate 24/7 so they can’t function like emergency rooms. The state believes his plan runs afoul of the law because it promises to cover unplanned procedures - like treating a sudden ear infection - under a fixed rate. That’s something only a licensed insurance company can do.
“I’m not doing an insurance business,” he said. “I’m just providing my services at my place during certain hours.” “If they leave me alone, I can serve thousands of patients,” he said.

Read the rest here: http://www.vosizneias.com/28392/200...-low-fee-is-being-fought-by-state-bureaucrats

Several Walmart and CVS tried to set-up low-cost clinics to serve the community and after much hemming and hawing, a few licenses were granted. Some states are better than others but the insurance regulators basically cut out all competition to insurance companies in similar ways while the health care consumer pays the price either by not having access to medical care or by ponying up for more expensive health care insurance.

Politicians then scream that people don't have access to healthcare - after they blocked access to healthcare.

Canadians, don't get your knickers in a twist. This isn't about whether Canadians can pee further than Americans. The real reason for the desire for socialized medicine in the United States is to expand the power of the political class, not because it's the only way to provide access to the less financially fortunate masses.
 
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