The Israel Lobby

i know that due to the jewish lobby hype, it is almost politically incorrect to dispute your baseless claim but i did not see syria nor iran posing a threat against us. in 1991 war, they were your allies against saddam and in 2002, out of nowhere, they became the axis of evil, an expression handed down to us by david frum, a hard core jewish zionist working from within the american admin.
when israel decided they are their enemy, they became ours.
beside.. been there, done that. at one point of time iraq was our ally against koumani, israel instructed us to start a war against it, we did and ended up with a total mess.

'"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.'
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

fair enough.

can you defend against the following;

' The American Israel Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is facing a burgeoning scandal with the upcoming trial of Steve Rosen their longtime chief lobbyist, and Iran policy expert Keith Weissman, who are accused of spying on behalf of Israel. Their source in the Pentagon Iran analyst and neoconservative ideologue Larry Franklin was caught red-handed by the FBI handing over top secret information to the two AIPAC officials, who then turned the vital data over to Israeli embassy employees. Franklin pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 12 years, with time off for good behavior i.e., testifying against his fellow spies.'



'AIPAC’s influence on Capitol Hill goes even further. According to Douglas Bloomfield, a former AIPAC staff member, ‘it is common for members of Congress and their staffs to turn to AIPAC first when they need information, before calling the Library of Congress, the Congressional Research Service, committee staff or administration experts.’ More important, he notes that AIPAC is ‘often called on to draft speeches, work on legislation, advise on tactics, perform research, collect co-sponsors and marshal votes’.


' Not surprisingly, American Jewish leaders often consult Israeli officials, to make sure that their actions advance Israeli goals. As one activist from a major Jewish organisation wrote, ‘it is routine for us to say: “This is our policy on a certain issue, but we must check what the Israelis think.” We as a community do it all the time.’ There is a strong prejudice against criticising Israeli policy, and putting pressure on Israel is considered out of order. Edgar Bronfman Sr, the president of the World Jewish Congress, was accused of ‘perfidy’ when he wrote a letter to President Bush in mid-2003 urging him to persuade Israel to curb construction of its controversial ‘security fence’. His critics said that ‘it would be obscene at any time for the president of the World Jewish Congress to lobby the president of the United States to resist policies being promoted by the government of Israel.’
More...
So other than the spying scandal which is reprehensible (even though we have thousands of CIA spies in Israel and elsewhere as well) you actually have absolutely nothing. Some obscure and/or anonymous individuals allegedly said something about AIPAC. Puhlease, is that all, wael? You again have been very helpful in debunking antisemitic lies.

The funny thing is even if these allegations are true they prove nothing - american jewish leaders consult Israeli officials and members of congress use AIPAC's research. Oh my god, that must be the jewish conspiracy to control the world the elders of Zion were talking about.

PS AIPAC is a well known, well-respected, well-financed and well-regarded organization lobbying on behalf of Israel. Moreover the US and Israel are friends and strategic allies. These are known and undisputed facts. That's a far cry from the US being Israel's lapdog sacrificing its own national interests and conducting Israeli foreign policy.
 
Quote from dddooo:

So other than the spying scandal which is reprehensible (even though we have thousands of CIA spies in Israel and elsewhere as well) you actually have absolutely nothing. Some obscure and/or anonymous individuals allegedly said something about AIPAC. Puhlease, is that all, wael? You again have been very helpful in debunking antisemitic lies.

The funny thing is even if these allegations are true they prove nothing - american jewish leaders consult Israeli officials and members of congress use AIPAC's research. Oh my god, that must be the jewish conspiracy to control the world the elders of Zion were talking about.

PS AIPAC is a well known, well-respected, well-financed and well-regarded organization lobbying on behalf of Israel. Moreover the US and Israel are friends and strategic allies. These are known and undisputed facts. That's a far cry from the US being Israel's lapdog sacrificing its own national interests and conducting Israeli foreign policy.
More...

we are not talking about 'obscure and/or anonymous individuals' in here; we are talking about the FBI, unless you consider such organization as such. we are talking about the imprisonment of israeli spies for 12 years only because he testified against other israeli spies.
we are talking about people from an organization who you consider as 'well regarded'. you are not making any sense ddddoo.
you also claimed that 'members of congress use AIPAC's research. Oh my god, that must be the jewish conspiracy to control the world the elders of Zion were talking about.'
case in point. so if a jewish lobby group, which addresses the state of israel's interest in the us is consulted in regard to iraq, iran and syria, israel's arch enemies, would you say, in all honesty, that such organization is going to be bipartisan?
in addition, i would like to thank you for you not disputing the fact that the american administration with a jewish lobbying group concerning the middle east...LOL
then you declared that 'the US and Israel are friends and strategic allies.' if that is the case, then why would a strategic ally find it appropriate to spy on its friend?
should china spy on us, which is supposed to, do you think we will be that forgiving?
if not, then why would be with israel?
finally, there are other points in the article which i would like to discuss with you and i thank you for having the courage which your lobby lacks to step forward and discuss their claims.
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

we are not talking about 'obscure and/or anonymous individuals' in here; we are talking about the FBI
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You can harp on the spying arrests all you want, I've already conceded the point with a caveat that the US is also spying on all other countries and all other countries are spying on the US and on each other.

Other than that the rest of your post was exactly the kind of unconfirmed and baseless nonsense I was talking about before:

- According to Douglas Bloomfield, a former AIPAC staff member...
- American Jewish leaders often consult Israeli officials...
- As one activist from a major Jewish organisation wrote...

Who the fuck is this Douglas guy, who are these leaders and activists, if these are not "obscure and/or anonymous individuals" I don't know who are.
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

i would like to thank you for you not disputing the fact that the american administration with a jewish lobbying group concerning the middle east
More...
Are you kidding me, not only all american administrations consult with jewish lobbying groups concerning the Middle East, they actually consult with [gasp] Israeli governments as well. One has to be completely insane to think that the interests, views and information of a friendly regional superpower is not taken into account when regional policy is established.
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

fair enough.

can you defend against the following;

' The American Israel Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is facing a burgeoning scandal with the upcoming trial of Steve Rosen their longtime chief lobbyist, and Iran policy expert Keith Weissman, who are accused of spying on behalf of Israel. Their source in the Pentagon Iran analyst and neoconservative ideologue Larry Franklin was caught red-handed by the FBI handing over top secret information to the two AIPAC officials, who then turned the vital data over to Israeli embassy employees. Franklin pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 12 years, with time off for good behavior i.e., testifying against his fellow spies.'
'AIPAC’s influence on Capitol Hill goes even further. According to Douglas Bloomfield, a former AIPAC staff member, ‘it is common for members of Congress and their staffs to turn to AIPAC first when they need information, before calling the Library of Congress, the Congressional Research Service, committee staff or administration experts.’ More important, he notes that AIPAC is ‘often called on to draft speeches, work on legislation, advise on tactics, perform research, collect co-sponsors and marshal votes’.
' Not surprisingly, American Jewish leaders often consult Israeli officials, to make sure that their actions advance Israeli goals. As one activist from a major Jewish organisation wrote, ‘it is routine for us to say: “This is our policy on a certain issue, but we must check what the Israelis think.” We as a community do it all the time.’ There is a strong prejudice against criticising Israeli policy, and putting pressure on Israel is considered out of order. Edgar Bronfman Sr, the president of the World Jewish Congress, was accused of ‘perfidy’ when he wrote a letter to President Bush in mid-2003 urging him to persuade Israel to curb construction of its controversial ‘security fence’. His critics said that ‘it would be obscene at any time for the president of the World Jewish Congress to lobby the president of the United States to resist policies being promoted by the government of Israel.’
More...

Quote from dddooo:

Are you kidding me, not only all american administrations consult with jewish lobbying groups concerning the Middle East, they actually consult with [gasp] Israeli governments as well. One has to be completely insane to think that the interests, views and information of a friendly regional superpower is not taken into account when regional policy is established.
More...
kissanmakeup, dddooo

Are you two telling us the US foreign police is directed by Israeli interests? You could be right, to the extend of what has been going on so far.
Doesn't Sharon's statement here appear to be right on? http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/10/Sharon3.html or was he just kidding?


I wonder what is the Iranian lobby doing these days? Is there such a thing?, How powerfull is it? Do they influence US policy in the middle east?

How many Iranians vs how many Israelis or should I say how many with direct affiliations, allegiance to Iran and Israel repsectively are in high places within our government?

Anyone knows? Time for some research?

Don't we need to know who makes decisions?, why? and who benefits?
 
Quote from FredBloggs:

why wont israel officially admit to having nukes?
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To piss off morons like you. Anyway, why should they, it's a matter of national security, they have not signed the NPT, they are not bound by any international laws or treaties to disclose this information.
 
Quote from sharkbites:

Are you two telling us the US foreign police is directed by Israeli interests?
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No dummy, that's what wael and his conspiracy buddies like you and Freddie are telling, what I am telling is that the US foreign policy takes Israel's interests into account and you are either too dumb or have an agenda or both to pretend that you don't understand the difference. The US foreign policy also takes the interests of the oil lobby, the saudi lobby and dozens of other lobbies into account.

PS the US foreign policy is directed by corporate interests, not Israeli interests.
 
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