The Iraq "Civil War" -

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November 16, 2006

SouthAmerica: Yesterday, I did watch on C-Span the General John Abizaid, chief of US Central Command, testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Capitol Hill.

As I was listening to the hearing all I could do is wonder why these people can’t get it?

Iraq has been in the middle of a sectarian civil war for a long time despite what all these people are saying. They don’t want to recognize the obvious, and they are all in denial.

It is “Pathetic.”

They even talked about Iraq, as if Iraq and the people on that area of the world had just formed a new inexperienced nation – Their attitude is we know better after all the United States has over 200 years history as a nation – and the US has a lot to teach to these people in Iraq on how a nation should work to be able to survive in the long run.

When it was her turn to speak Maine’s Republican Senator Susan Collins suggested that maybe what they need in Iraq was another set of elections to fix the current chaos, and the sectarian civil war.

As usual Senator Joe Lieberman still thinks that the US should stay the course.

I was a little disappointed regarding all the speakers, I was expecting that one of them would suggest for the United States to try to convert all the Iraqis to Christianity – that would be an option to resolve their religious differences – and after that with a little wishful thinking maybe even the sectarian civil war would go away. (Even if they took that option there was the possibility that they would screw up, and convert half of the Iraqis to Catholicism, and the other half to Protestantism, and before you know they would be killing each other like in Ireland.)

Based on the results of the last US elections it seems to me that a large number of Americans have grasped the obvious: The right time to leave Iraq will be never – and the excuse is that if the United States occupational forces leave Iraq in the next few months Iraq would engulf itself into a sectarian civil war.

They say: the US forces can’t leave Iraq right now because the country will turn into chaos, and into a sectarian civil war.

Hello. The lights are on, but nobody is home.

The only difference between leaving Iraq in 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, one year, 2 years, 5 years, or 10 years – it is the cost of the war to US taxpayers, and the number of US casualties, the longer the US stays in Iraq the higher the costs on both counts.

Regarding the Iraq sectarian civil war – the civil war will run its course, and the United States can't do a damn thing about it.

It is Ironic that Americans want to teach the people from Mesopotamia about Constitutions and law, since these where the people who had set the first early law code in human history (in -2250 B.C. Ur-Nammu founds Ur's 3rd. dynasty; dedicates ziggurat at Ur moon-god Nanna, sets up early law code.)

Then in -1700 B.C. Hammurabi brings most of Mesopotamia under his control, and Hammurabi introduces his famous law code.

Since the people from Mesopotamia invented the first law code over 4000 years ago, then I assume that by the year 2006 A.D. they must had enough experience in that area.

Let me reflect a little on this one:

In one hand we have the United States legal system that has been developed over a period of approximately 230 years.

In the other hand we have the Mesopotamian legal system that has been developed over a period of approximately 4256 years.



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In January 2005 I posted the following on the PBS message board when the Iraqis had their fake elections, but it is worth remind ourselves regarding some basic information related to the Iraq situation - here is the United States - a country a little over 200 years old – trying to teach a country almost 11,000 years old – Iraq - how to run its affairs.

It is an ironic situation when we take in consideration what is going on in the United States – a country that might be going out of business in the coming years and may not exist 100 years from now on its current form – because of economic Bankruptcy.

Anyway here is some background on Iraq.

It is "Pathetic" in my opinion, but here is a little history about the Iraqi people - Just for the period –9000 B.C. to 500 B.C. - A historic period that covers about 8,500 years before "Western Philosophy" took its first steps.

If we add the years -500 B.C. to 2005 A.D., then the Iraqi people has a history going back over 11,000 years.

Don't you think that it is "Pathetic" and "Laughable" that the United States a country created only a few years ago, wants to teach Iraq a country that has a 11,000 years history about how to run an election, draft its Constitution and how to run its affairs?

The sad part is that most Americans, (because of their massive ignorance) think that they are helping the Iraqi people.

I don't want to confuse anyone by the different names, but "Mesopotamia" covered more or less the same area where the country "Iraq" is located today.



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Mesopotamia (-9000 - 500 B.C.)

B.C. = Before Christ

HISTORY and CULTURE


Early Farming Communities - 9000 B. C. to 5000 B.C.


-9000 B.C.
Beginning cultivation of wild wheat and barley and domestication of dogs and sheep; inaugurating of change from food gathering to food producing culture - Karim Shahir in Zagros foothills.


-7000 B.C.
At Jarmo, oldest known permanent settlement: crude mud houses, wheat grown from seed, herds of goats, sheep, and pigs.


-6000 B.C.
Migration of northern farmers settle in region from Babylon to Persian Gulf.
Hassuna culture introduces irrigation, fine pottery, and permanent dwellings; dominates culture for 1000 years, develops trade from Persian Gulf to Mediterranean.


Pre-Sumerians (-5000 -3500 B.C.)


-5000 B.C.
Ubaidians develop first divisions of labor, mud brick villages, first religious shrines. Small temple at Eridu - earliest example of an offering table and niche for cult object.


-4500 -4000 B.C.
Semitic nomads from Syria and Arabian Peninsula invade southern Mesopotamia, intermingle with Ubaidian population.
Temple at Tepe Gawra built - setting style for later examples.


Sumerians (-3500 -1900 B.C.)


-3500 B.C.
Sumerians settle on banks of Euphrates.
Temple at Eridu - zigguratprototype


-3000 B.C.
Democratic assemblies give way to kingships, evolve into hereditary monarchies.
Introduction of pictographs to keep administrative records.
3-D statues, e.g. Warka head.
White Temple - ziggurat traditional design.
Temple at Tell Uqair - mosaic decorations.
cuneiform land sales formal contracts.


Kish - leading Sumerian city:
Eridu and Kish - simple palaces.
"Standard of Ur" - war-peace plaque, religious statues, gold and silver artifacts buried in tombs of Ur.
Sumerians of Abu Salabikh - first poetry.


-2750 B.C.
Gilgamesh, hero of Sumerian legends, reigns as king of Erech


-2500 B.C.
Lugalannemudu of Abab unites city states which vie for domination for 200 years.


-2250 B.C.
Ur-Nammu founds Ur's 3rd. dynasty; dedicates ziggurat at Ur moon-god Nanna, sets up early law code.
Gudea, Prince of Lagsh, art and lit patron, magnificent statues produced in his honor.

-2000 B.C.
Elamites attack and destroy Ur.


Babylonians and Assyrians (-1900 -500 B.C.)


-1900 B.C.
Amorites from Syrian desert conquer Sumer.


-1800 B.C.
Hammurabi asccends Babylonian throne (circa 1727 BC)


-1700 B.C.
Hammurabi brings most of Mesopotamia under his control.
Hammurabi introduces law code.


-1600 B.C.
Hittite invasion from Turkey ends Hammurabi's dynasty.
Bas-relief of baked brick appears as dominant art form - Karaindash Temple.


-1500 B.C.
Assyria conquered by Hurrians from Anatolia.


-1400 B.C.
Kurigalzu assumes Babylonian throne


-1200 B.C.
Nebuchadrezzar I expels Elamites.


-1100 B.C.
King Tiglath-Pileser I leads Assyria to new era of power.
Iron, introduced originally by Hittites, is used extensively in Assyria for tools and weapons.


-1000 B.C.
Assyrian empire shattered by Aramaean and Zagros tribes.
150 Assyrian decline halted by Adadnirari II.


-900 B.C.
Assurnasirpal II builds magnificent new capital, Calah, replacing old capital of Assur, present day Nimrud.


-800 B.C.
Tiglath-Pileser II creates great empire extending from the Persian Gulf to the borders of Egypt.
Sargon II builds new capitol at Dur-Sharrukin


-700 B.C.
Assurbanipal extends empire from Nile to Caucasus Mountains. Chaldeans and Iranian Medes overrun Assyria - Neo-Babylonian empire.
Sennacherib's son, Esaraddon, rebuilds Babylon.


-600 B.C.
Nebuchadrezzar II rules Neo-Babylonian Empire. Razes Jerusalem, takes Jews into captivity in Babylon.
Builds "Tower of Babel," temple to Marduk


-500 B.C.
Cyrus the Great, Persian warrior and statesman, conquers Babylon.


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Philosophy:

The fifth-century Athenian philosopher "Socrates" set the standard for all subsequent Western philosophy.

Socrates (-469 -399 B.C.)

Plato (-427 -347 B.C.)

Aristotle (-384 -322 B.C.)


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George W. Bush (2001 A.D. to 2008 A.D.)
King of the United States set the standard of philosophy for “Morons and Idiots”


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November 24, 2006

SouthAmerica: Eventually, even George W. Bush might grasp the fact that there is a nasty sectarian civil war spinning completely out of control in Iraq.

But again, here we are talking about someone who does not play with a full deck.



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Baghdad locked down after car bombs kill 160
24 Nov 2006
Source: Reuters
By Claudia Parsons


BAGHDAD, Nov 24 (Reuters) - Baghdad was under curfew on Friday and the government appealed for calm after car bombs in a Shi'ite stronghold killed 160 in the bloodiest single attack of the war, pushing Iraq closer to the abyss of anarchy.

A further 257 people were wounded in the blasts, which left bloodied remains and blackened bodies scattered amid blazing vehicles. Mortars hit a Sunni enclave soon after, apparently in retaliation for the car bombs, which came as gunmen assaulted the Shi'ite-held Health Ministry in a bold daylight raid.

"It's an extravagant attack specifically designed to trigger retaliation," said Toby Dodge, an Iraq expert at Queen Mary, University of London, likening it to the bombing of a Shi'ite shrine in Samarra in Febuary that sparked a surge in bloodshed.

Iraqi and U.S. leaders accuse al Qaeda and diehard followers of deposed president Saddam Hussein of seeking to provoke a Shi'ite backlash in order to profit from ensuing chaos.

The attacks come after a week of tension inside the U.S.- backed national unity government. Under pressure over Iraq after Republicans were defeated at midterm elections this month, President George W. Bush has pressed Shi'ite and minority Sunni leaders to rein in militants to avoid all-out civil war.

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, who meets Bush next week for a summit in Jordan, warned of "the dark hand of conspiracy that is shedding the blood of the innocent" and urged restraint, vowing to hunt down those responsible. Top Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish politicians made a joint appeal for calm.

Authorities slapped an indefinite curfew on Baghdad and closed the airport. Ports and the airport in the southern Shi'ite oil city of Basra would also close, an official said, in protest at the attacks.

POOLS OF BLOOD

Heavily guarded and policed by the Mehdi Army militia of radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, Sadr City escaped relatively unscathed until this year from al Qaeda and other Sunni insurgent attacks. Bombings against civilians there in recent months have been seen as a declaration of war on the militia, which Sunnis blame for a wave of death squad violence.

"As the bombs went off, everyone started running and shouting," news photographer Kareem al-Rubaie said. "I saw a car from a wedding party, covered in ribbons and flowers. It was burning. There were pools of blood ... and children dead."

In a dramatic daylight raid that kicked off Thursday's spasm of violence, five people were wounded when guerrillas fired mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and machineguns into the Health Ministry compound, about 5 km (3 miles) from Sadr City.

The Health Ministry is run by followers of Sadr, whose Mehdi Army is accused by many Sunnis of being behind some of the worst death squad violence in the capital, in which thousands of people have been kidnapped and tortured and their bodies dumped.

The United Nations said on Wednesday violent deaths among civilians had hit a record of over 3,700 in October. It said attacks had surged since the Samarra bombing in Febuary and some 420,000 fled their homes to other parts of Iraq since then.

"What you have is anarchy, a war of all against all with no hand strong enough to win," said Dodge, adding that the response to the bombs would test Sadr's ability to control the Mehdi Army. "It's clearly an attempt to get a Samarra-like backlash."

Thursday's attack was the worst single attack of the war and the highest death toll since 171 people were killed in bombings in Kerbala and Baghdad at Shi'ite ceremonies in 2004.

Maliki has called for a swifter transfer of responsibility for security to Iraqi forces. Bush has said he will not leave the 140,000 U.S. troops in the "crossfire" of a civil war in Iraq, but has also vowed not leave without establishing stability and security in Iraq.

(Additional reporting by Ross Colvin, Aseel Kami, Mussab Al- Khairalla, Ahmed Rasheed, Alastair Macdonald and Stuart McDill)


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November 24, 2006

SouthAmerica: The best that the Bush administration can do today in Iraq – is to deny that there is a nasty sectarian civil war spinning out of control in Iraq.

Maybe if they deny enough times then the sectarian civil war will go away.

That is how the Bush administration tries to resolve most problems.

At this point the Iraqis must be discourage and they don’t know what to do anymore to get their attention, since the Bush administration can’t grasp that there is a nasty sectarian civil war under way in Iraq.

It is incredible to me that there are some Americans who still think that they can win the war in Iraq – they are the same people who think that the United States was the winner of the Vietnam War.



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“New savage twist to violence in Baghdad”
By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer
AP – Associated Press
November 24, 2006


BAGHDAD, Iraq - Revenge-seeking Shiite militiamen seized six Sunnis as they left Friday prayers, drenched them with kerosene and burned them alive, and Iraqi soldiers did nothing to stop the attack, police and witnesses said.

The fiery slayings in the mainly Sunni neighborhood of Hurriyah were a dramatic escalation of the brutality coursing through the Iraqi capital, coming a day after suspected Sunni insurgents killed 215 people in Baghdad's main Shiite district with a combination of bombs and mortars.

The attacks culminated Baghdad's deadliest week of sectarian fighting since the war began more than three years ago.

Police Capt. Jamil Hussein said Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in the burnings of Sunnis carried out by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia, or in subsequent attacks that torched four Sunni mosques and killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children, in the same northwest Baghdad area.

Imad al-Hasimi, a Sunni elder in Hurriyah, confirmed Hussein's account. He told Al-Arabiya television he saw people who were soaked in kerosene, then set afire, burning before his eyes.

Two workers at Kazamiyah Hospital said the bodies from the clashes and immolations had been taken to the morgue at their facility. They refused to be identified by name, saying they feared retribution.

In spite of the police and witness accounts, however, President Jamal Talabani appeared to discount the reports. He emerged from meetings with other Iraqi political leaders late Friday and said Defense Minister Abdul-Qader al-Obaidi told him that the Hurriyah neighborhood had been quiet throughout the day.

According to Hussein, the police official, militiamen rampaged through the district, setting fire to several homes in addition to the four mosques that were bombed and burned.

Some residents claimed that the Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, has begun kidnapping and holding Sunni hostages in order to slaughter them at funerals of Shiite victims of Baghdad's sectarian violence.

Such claims cannot be verified but speak to the deep fear that grips Baghdad, where retaliation has become a part of daily life.

In the past year, thousands of bodies have been found dumped across Baghdad and other cities in central Iraq, victims who were tortured, then shot to death, according to police. The suspected militia killers often have used electric drills on their captives' bodies before killing them. The bodies are frequently decapitated.

Burning victims alive, however, introduced a new method of brutality that seemed likely to be reciprocated by the other sect as the Shiites and Sunnis continue killing one another in unprecedented numbers. The attack, which came despite a curfew in Baghdad, capped a day in which at least 87 people were killed or found dead in sectarian violence across Iraq.

The Association of Muslim Scholars, the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq, said even more Sunni victims were killed. It claimed a total of 18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque.

The extreme violence continued to tear at the Iraq's social fabric even after the government had banned pedestrians and cars from the streets and closed the international airport until further notice in anticipation of a storm of retaliation for the five bombings and two mortar rounds that killed 215 in Sadr City on Thursday.

The airport closure forced Talabani to delay his planned Saturday departure for Tehran for meetings with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The Iranian leader also invited Syrian President Bashar Assad, but it now appeared he would not attend.

The chaos also cast a shadow over the Amman, Jordan, summit next week between Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and President Bush.

Politicians loyal to al-Sadr threatened to boycott parliament and the Cabinet if al-Maliki went ahead with the meeting.

The radical Shiite political bloc, known as Sadrists, is a mainstay of support for al-Maliki, himself a Shiite. The Mahdi Army is the organization's armed wing.

Sadrist lawmaker Qusai Abdul-Wahab blamed U.S. forces for Thursday's attack in Sadr City because they failed to provide security.

"We say occupation forces are fully responsible for these acts, and we call for the withdrawal of occupation forces or setting a timetable for their withdrawal," Abdul-Wahab said.

A U.S. helicopter patrolling above Sadr City came under intense fire from the ground and shot back, wounding two people Friday night, according to police 1st. Lt. Qassim Mohammed and witnesses.

The U.S. military said the helicopter had taken fire from six rockets launched from one site and destroyed the launcher. The military statement did not address whether there were casualties.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzil said the president's plans to meet with al-Maliki on Wednesday and Thursday were unchanged.

Al-Maliki is increasingly at odds with the Bush administration for his refusal to disband militias and associated deaths squads that are believed responsible for killing thousands of Sunnis since an al-Qaida attack blew up the golden dome of a revered Shiite shrine on Feb. 22 in Samarra, north of Baghdad.

Mortar fire rained down again on Sunni Islam's holiest shrine in Baghdad, the Abu Hanifa mosque in the Azamiyah neighborhood, wounding at least five people. Several mortars crashed into the area Thursday night within hours of the attacks in Sadr City, one of them puncturing the dome of the shrine and damaging the interior, including its library.

Also, militia gunmen raided a Sunni mosque in the Amil section of west Baghdad, killing two guards, police 1st Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razzaq said.

And in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, Sunni insurgents blew up the dome of the important Shiite mosque of leading cleric Abdul-Karm al-Madani.

In the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar, 23 people were killed and 43 wounded when explosives hidden in a parked car and in a suicide belt worn by a pedestrian detonated simultaneously outside a car dealership, said police Brig. Khalaf al-Jubouri.

Altogether, 56 people were killed across in Iraq on Friday, and police said they found 31 bodies dumped throughout Baghdad, most of them tortured before being shot.

In Sadr City, cleanup crews continued removing remains of the dead from wreckage of the car bombs, and tents were erected throughout the ramshackle district for relatives to receive condolences.

Hundreds of men, women and children beat their chests, chanted and cried as they walked beside vehicles carrying the caskets of their loved ones toward the holy Shiite city of Najaf for burial. Despite Baghdad's curfew, al-Maliki, himself a Shiite, ordered police to guard the processions.

As the funeral processions reached the edge of Sadr City in northeastern Baghdad, the cars and minivans left most of the mourners behind and began the 100-mile drive south to Najaf, a treacherous journey that passes through many checkpoints and areas controlled by Sunni militants in Iraq's so-called "Triangle of Death."

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AP correspondents Thomas Wagner, Bassem Mroue and Qais al-Bashir contributed to this report.


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Quote from southamerica:

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George W. Bush (2001 A.D. to 2008 A.D.)
King of the United States set the standard of philosophy for “Morons and Idiots”


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More...



I don't blame bush. The guy is a congenital retard, everyone knows that. The blame lies with those who voted for him knowing full well the guy was incompetent.
 
SouthAmerica,

you started this thread about a year ago and several neoshits came charging to prove that there is no Civil War going on in Iraq. I read and noted some of their comments and they now appear comical given the present state of affairs. Those neoshits attacked your foresight and I commend you as time have proven you to be correct.

Here are some samplings from the venom spewed by the neoshits of this forum. Reading their posts now shows how shorts sighted ostriches these neoshits are. I feel sorry for givng ostriches a bad name. :D

Sam123

03-10-06 11:07 AM

Civil war my butt. Where is the civil war so many people hope to happen?


Sam123

03-14-06 06:18 PM

The dumb media elites who perpetuate this “civil war” crap believe that dozens of people killed by suicide bombs in a country of 26 million people is the same as the whole country burning in space.

sputdr

03-16-06 12:37 PM

BAGHDAD -- Insurgent groups in one of Iraq's most violent provinces claim they have purged the region of three-quarters of al Qaeda's supporters after forming an alliance to force out the foreign fighters.
If true, it would mark a significant victory in the fight against Abu Musab Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, and could partly explain the considerable drop in suicide bombings in Iraq recently.

Sam123

06-16-06 03:25 PM

For the ten thousandth time, somebody blowing himself up in an attempt to spark a civil war doesn’t make it a civil war. We could have 100 more people blowing themselves up all over Iraq killing 1000 people. It won’t make any difference because these Islamist fools are trying to light a wet log.
 
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November 26, 2006

SouthAmerica: On November 25, 2006 The New York Times published a column by Maureen Dowd – “No One to Lose To” – and she said: “…He could describe, hypothetically, a series of naïve, arrogant and self-defeating blunders, including his team’s failure to comprehend that in the Arab world, revenge and religious zealotry can be stronger compulsions than democracy and prosperity.

…The questions are no longer whether there’s a civil war or whether we can achieve a military victory. The only question is, who can we turn the country to?

At the moment, that would be no one.”



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I don’t understand why she said that on her column: “his team’s failure to comprehend that in the Arab world, revenge and religious zealotry can be stronger compulsions than democracy and prosperity.”

In my opinion there are very few groups of people who would not react with revenge - if they were given the opportunity – if members of their immediate family had been tortured, raped, beaten, imprisoned, and murdered by a ruthless regime.

I understand exactly what is going on in Iraq regarding the revenge of their loved ones. It is time to get even with the people who did any harm to any of your family members.

Who cares about democracy and prosperity – the first priority is revenge and getting even with the people who did any harm to the members of your family – everything else is meaningless and secondary.

She finished her article with the following question: “The only question is, who can we turn the country to?”

In my opinion the answer is very simple: To Saddam Hussein and the members of his government who are under US custody.

Saddam Hussein still is the legitim elected ruler of Iraq and he might be the only option available to minimize the damage done to the stability of the entire Middle East when the United States overthrow his government in 2003.

Saddam Hussein back in power is the only option available to try to contain the Iraq sectarian civil war from reaching complete chaos. It is possible that we have already passed the point of no return – if that is the case then just God knows what is going to happen in Iraq and in the entire Middle East in the coming years.



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“Shi'ite militia hints of new attacks - Denounces Sunnis after taking over Iraqi state TV”
By Hannah Allam and Mohamed al Dulaimy - Mcclatchy Newspapers
The Boston Globe - November 26, 2006


BAGHDAD -- Followers of the militant Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr took over state-run television yesterday to denounce the Iraqi government, label Sunnis "terrorists," and issue what appeared to many viewers as a call to arms.

The two-hour broadcast, from a community gathering in the heart of the Shi'ite militia stronghold of Sadr City, included three members of Sadr's parliamentary bloc, who took questions from angry residents demanding revenge for a series of car bombings that killed 200 people on Thursday.

With Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki relegated to the sidelines, Sunni-Shi'te attacks have continued unchecked despite a 24-hour curfew in Baghdad. Sadr's Mahdi Army militia now controls wide swaths of the capital, his politicians are the backbone of the Cabinet, and his followers are deeply entrenched in the Iraqi security forces.

Sectarian violence has spun so rapidly out of control since the Sadr City blasts, however, that it is not clear whether even Sadr has the authority -- or the will -- to stop the cycle of bloodshed.

"This is live and, God willing, everyone will hear me: We are not interested in sidewalks, water services, or anything else. We want safety," a Sadr City resident said as the televised crowd cheered. "We want the officials. They say there is no sectarian war. No, it is sectarian war, and that's the truth."

Militia leaders told supporters yesterday to prepare for a fresh wave of incursions into Sunni neighborhoods that would begin as soon as the curfew ends tomorrow, according to Sadr City residents. Several members of the Mahdi Army boasted they were distributing police uniforms throughout Shi'ite neighborhoods to allow greater freedom of movement. The government announced it would partially lift the curfew today to allow for pedestrian traffic.

In the Diyala Province north of Baghdad, Sunnis stormed into two Shi'ite homes, lined up 21 men, and shot them to death in front of women and children, police there said. Later in the day, a Shi'ite television station showed footage of the victims' burials.

And in the western province of Anbar, a suicide bombing at a checkpoint in Fallujah killed a US serviceman and three Iraqi civilians, according to a US military statement. Another American and nine Iraqis were injured.

Hareth al-Dhari, a top Sunni cleric, made an appeal in Cairo for Arab nations to withdraw recognition of Iraq's Shi'ite-led government. He also said that US-led troops were complicit in Iraq's sectarian crisis.

Dhari, leader of the militant Association of Muslim Scholars, declared Iraqi efforts toward a unity government "dead," and said the violence is political rather than theological.

"The occupying forces have been giving cover to the militias and criminal gangs," Dhari said.

"The government," he added, "has been seen setting the atmosphere for them with the curfews to aid them in catching the victims and carrying out their attacks."

The New York Times reported today that the insurgency has become self-sustaining, raising tens of millions from oil smuggling, kidnapping, counterfeiting, corrupt charities, and other crimes.

According to a classified US report, a copy of which was obtained by the Times, groups responsible for many of the attacks are raising an estimated $70 million to $200 million a year from illegal activities. Some $25 million to $100 million comes from oil smuggling and other criminal activity.
Material from Reuters was included in
this report.


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November 28, 2006

SouthAmerica: It is official now – finally the United States mainstream media started grasping that Iraq has been in the middle of a sectarian civil war for a long time.

If the American mainstream media finally recognized what has been happening in Iraq for a long time – can George W. Bush and his gang be to far behind?



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The Washington Post
NBC Calls Iraq Conflict 'Civil War'
By DAVID BAUDER
Source: The Associated Press
Monday, November 27, 2006; 9:00 PM


NEW YORK -- NBC News on Monday began referring to the Iraq conflict as a civil war, adopting a phrase that President Bush and many other news organizations have avoided.

Matt Lauer said on the "Today" show that "after careful consideration, NBC News has decided that a change in terminology is warranted, that the situation in Iraq with armed militarized factions fighting for their own political agendas can now be characterized as civil war."

The network's cable news outlet, MSNBC, drummed the point home repeatedly by using the phrase "Iraq: The Civil War" on the screen.

There are different criteria for defining a civil war. Webster's New World College Dictionary defines it simply as "war between geographical sections or political factions of the same nation."

Some political scientists use a threshold of 1,000 dead, which the current conflict has long since passed.

There are more conservative definitions. The Web site GlobalSecurity.org, which provides information on defense issues, said five criteria must be met: The contestants must control territory, have a functioning government, enjoy some foreign recognition, have identifiable regular armed forces and engage in major military operations.

The Bush administration said Monday that it does not believe Iraq is in a civil war, and that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki does not, either.

"You have not yet had a situation also where you have two clearly defined and opposing groups vying not only for power, but for territory," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "What you do have is sectarian violence that seems to be less aimed at gaining full control over an area than expressing differences, and also trying to destabilize a democracy _ which is different than a civil war, where two sides are clashing for territory and supremacy."

Matthew Felling, spokesman for the Washington-based Center for Media and Public Affairs, said that "not since Fox News Channel decided to stop saying 'suicide bombers' and start saying 'homicide bombers' has there been a starker linguistic stance taken by a news organization." The network began using that terminology in April 2002, shortly after the White House did.

Use of the phrase "civil war" could be seen in some circles as an escalation that could call into question the Bush administration's policy on the war.

The Los Angeles Times moved toward using the phrase this summer, carefully couching it in descriptions, but since October has been calling it a civil war, said Marjorie Miller, the newspaper's foreign editor.

"It's a very simple calculation," she said. "It's a country that's tearing itself apart, one group against another group or several groups against several groups. What country even admits that it is in the midst of a civil war?"

Editors at The Associated Press have discussed the issue and haven't reached a definitive stance, said John Daniszewski, international editor. Most often, the conflict is called "the war in Iraq" or identified with descriptive terms such as sectarian fighting, anti-government attacks or ethnic clashes, he said.

He pointed to the different definitions experts have for civil wars.

"From a historical point of view, not every civil war is called by that name, and wars by their very nature are not always neatly categorized," he said.

"For instance, the American Revolutionary War, the Vietnam War and the more recent wars in Bosnia and Kosovo were all civil wars according to the broader definition, yet we do not normally think or speak of them that way."

Officials at both ABC News and CBS News said that they discuss the situation all the time, but that there's no network policy to use the term civil war.

"We are not there yet," said Paul Slavin, ABC News senior vice president, noting differing definitions.

The debate was discussed on air on "World News" last Wednesday between anchor Charles Gibson and correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Military officials say it could escalate into a full-scale civil war," Gibson said to Karl.

"But with 3,700 people dying in a month and 100,000 people leaving the country and the kind of sectarian violence we're seeing, aren't we in a full-scale civil war already?"

Replied Karl: "That is certainly a debate that you can hear in the halls here at the Pentagon."

Similarly, CNN has no network policy, but on Monday correspondent Michael Ware said on the air, "If this isn't a civil war, I don't know what is."

On "Today," Lauer said NBC News consulted with many experts and carefully deliberated before making the call. He said there are two clearly defined groups, the Sunnis and the Shiites, using violence to gain political supremacy, and there's a government in place that's unable to protect people.

"Well, Matt, to be honest, I've been calling it a civil war, low-grade conflict, for 18 months," said retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, an NBC News consultant.



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SouthAmerica will cry “Civil War” when his momma slaps him across his face. SouthAmerica will cry “Civil War” when his brother gives him a wedgie. People who cry “civil war” every time a handfull of people die in sectarian violence in a country of 26 million people are all PUSSIES.
Quote from tradermaji:

SouthAmerica,

you started this thread about a year ago and several neoshits came charging to prove that there is no Civil War going on in Iraq. I read and noted some of their comments and they now appear comical given the present state of affairs. Those neoshits attacked your foresight and I commend you as time have proven you to be correct.

Here are some samplings from the venom spewed by the neoshits of this forum. Reading their posts now shows how shorts sighted ostriches these neoshits are. I feel sorry for givng ostriches a bad name. :D

Sam123

03-10-06 11:07 AM

Civil war my butt. Where is the civil war so many people hope to happen?


Sam123

03-14-06 06:18 PM

The dumb media elites who perpetuate this “civil war” crap believe that dozens of people killed by suicide bombs in a country of 26 million people is the same as the whole country burning in space.

sputdr

03-16-06 12:37 PM

BAGHDAD -- Insurgent groups in one of Iraq's most violent provinces claim they have purged the region of three-quarters of al Qaeda's supporters after forming an alliance to force out the foreign fighters.
If true, it would mark a significant victory in the fight against Abu Musab Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, and could partly explain the considerable drop in suicide bombings in Iraq recently.

Sam123

06-16-06 03:25 PM

For the ten thousandth time, somebody blowing himself up in an attempt to spark a civil war doesn’t make it a civil war. We could have 100 more people blowing themselves up all over Iraq killing 1000 people. It won’t make any difference because these Islamist fools are trying to light a wet log.
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Quote from Sam321:

SouthAmerica will cry “Civil War” when his momma slaps him across his face. SouthAmerica will cry “Civil War” when his brother gives him a wedgie. People who cry “civil war” every time a handfull of people die in sectarian violence in a country of 26 million people are all PUSSIES.
More...

Sam123 was proved wrong. Now this incarnation called Sam321 comes up spewing his venom again. :D
 
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