The intelligent man is not greedy or fearful

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from vhehn:

wow, telekinesis is a reality. thats news to me. do you have any proof? a link to that scientific journal will do.

Did you not click on the link I provided? Is Science well-respected enough for you? It's only one of the pre-eminent scholarly scientific publications on the planet.

Do your own research. This story was all over the world news last year. If you want the link it will take you two minutes to find it.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from vhehn:

do you have any proof? a link to that scientific journal will do.

Yes, just as I thought. It actually took about 6 minutes to get to the full paper.

Let me know if you bothered to do the work to find the article, and whether you are willing to do what John Maynard Keynes said he does when he finds out he is wrong.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from traderNik:

Did you not click on the link I provided? Is Science well-respected enough for you? It's only one of the pre-eminent scholarly scientific publications on the planet.

Do your own research. This story was all over the world news last year. If you want the link it will take you two minutes to find it.

"Now, however, a team at the California Institute of Technology has reported in the journal Science how it used electrodes to eavesdrop on the brain signals involved in planning - but not executing - future arm movements by a monkey, then used a computer to predict its intentions."



ok i found the link on another post. first of all this has nothing to do with the paranormal. this is using sensors to detect the electrical waves in the brain and harnessing them to computers. i have no doubt this will be possible some day.
my skepticism is with supernatural things.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from vhehn:

"Now, however, a team at the California Institute of Technology has reported in the journal Science how it used electrodes to eavesdrop on the brain signals involved in planning - but not executing - future arm movements by a monkey, then used a computer to predict its intentions."

ok i found the link on another post. first of all this has nothing to do with the paranormal. this is using sensors to detect the electrical waves in the brain and harnessing them to computers. i have no doubt this will be possible some day.
my skepticism is with supernatural things.

wait a minute - telekinesis has nothing to do with the 'paranormal'??

Ummm.. first of all, I don't think you found the actual paper by Andersen et.al on the Science website, did you?

No, I don't think you did. They were able to get a robot to move telekinetically. It sounds like you read a newspaper article about the CIT paper, not the paper itself. Why not try going to the source?

(I will gladly PM the link to the actual paper on the Science website to anyone who asks me. Well, almost anyone ).

Second... you said 'wow I didn't know telekinesis is proved'. Now you see that it is. And still you are unwilling to admit that your world view was forced to change. I don't know whether you would have called telekinesis 'nonsense' or part of a 'supernatural' belief set, but many people do.

We need to wrap this up, as it's clear that whatever proof you are shown, you will stick with your beliefs. That is the essence of faith, isn't it?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from traderNik:

Ummm.. first of all, I don't think you found the actual paper by Andersen et.al on the Science website, did you?

No, I don't think you did. They were able to get a robot to move telekinetically. It sounds like you read a newspaper article about the CIT paper, not the paper itself. Why not try going to the source?

Second... you said 'wow I didn't know telekinesis was proved'. Now you see ths it is. And still you are unwilling to admit that your world view was forced to change. I don't know whether you would have called telekinesis 'nonsense' or part of a 'supernatural' belief set, but many people do.

We need to wrap this up, as it's clear that whatever proof you are shown, you will stick with your beliefs. That is the essence of faith, isn't it?

no i didnt see that part. post the link. i will read it. i am not afraid to change my mind with evidence. we are debating about moving things through supernatural means not through the use of technology.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from vhehn:

no i didnt see that part. post the link. i will read it. i am not afraid to change my mind with evidence. we are debating about moving things through supernatural means not through the use of technology.

Wouldn't moving things using brainwaves be considered part of the supernatural or paranormal by many? When Uri Geller (a fake) did it, a lot of scientifically inclined people said that the whole concept was absurd.

The point here is that science reveals to us that what we thought was a good model of reality is not that good after all. You characterize this as moving things through technology, but the whole point is that once the door is cracked open, we can see through it to the possibility that the technology is theoretically unnecessary. We don't need punchcards to make computers anymore. We have silicon chips, and light storage is up next. It's about what this paper shows is possible, and not about the design of this particular experiment. We now know that at the very least, we can't call telekinesis 'nonsense'.

Action at a distance. Ever heard of a superluminal connection? An example is when information about the spin of sub-atomic particle is instantaneously transmitted to its antiparticle; the information transfer is faster than light. But isn't that "impossible"?

This article shows us what might be

Look man, I don't need to browbeat you any more - it's clear that we have a different way of looking at the world. I don't like people who call things they don't understand 'nonsense' - that's why I engaged you. I do understand that you think things like channeling dead people and the like are nonsense. I find it very very hard to believe in that too. It seems to me that you cast your net pretty wide. Meditation is a proven technique for self improvement. You have yet to say 'I was not talking about meditation'. You just came on with a blanket statement, and I don't buy into those very often. The things I believe in without compromise tend to be things like the wrongness of hurting a child.

The link is easy to find. I'm not particularly inclined to give it to you. Find it if you want. If it makes you change your mind, great.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from traderNik:

Wouldn't moving things using brainwaves be considered part of the supernatural or paranormal by many? When Uri Geller (a fake) did it, a lot of scientifically inclined people said that the whole concept was absurd.

.

no it wouldnt. science has discovered that the brain functions by simple electrical impulses. if you hook a sensor connected to a wire that connects to a computer to do a task it has nothing to do with the paranormal. is it magic if you have a wireless mouse connected to your computer and you are able to move things?

 

[Choad]

Steve's Levitation?

<embed src="http://www.fys.uio.no/super/levitation/lev.mpeg" width="320" height="260" autoplay="true" controller="true" /embed>

 

[FanOfFridays]

quote from me
Wouldn't moving things using brainwaves be considered part of the supernatural or paranormal by many?

Quote from vhehn:
no it wouldnt. science has discovered that the brain functions by simple electrical impulses. if you hook a sensor connected to a wire that connects to a computer to do a task it has nothing to do with the paranormal. is it magic if you have a wireless mouse connected to your computer and you are able to move things?

No, it isn't. But if you don't think that telekinetic phenomena are paranormal, why did you just post this??

quote from vhehn
wow, telekinesis is a reality. thats news to me. do you have any proof? a link to that scientific journal will do.
i would be shaking in my boots if i had a standing offer out there of a million dollars for anyone who can show any paranormal ability.

Here you clearly state your belief that the proof of telekinesis would constitute a proof capable of winning the $1MM from Randi for showing paranormal ability. Why would you be 'shaking in your boots' otherwise??

Very confusing stuff, man. Anyway, this is definitely my last post to you in this thread, as it's clear that I have failed to make my point in a clear enough manner. That is my problem, not yours. As a last gasp effort...

"The monkeys were trained to operate a computer cursor by merely thinking about it, Professor Andersen said."

out

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from Choad:

Steve's Levitation?

<embed src="http://www.fys.uio.no/super/levitation/lev.mpeg" width="320" height="260" autoplay="true" controller="true" /embed>

That is doctored!! That is impossible!!

It's nonsense.