The "I" word and effects on equity markets

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

What is even more scary is that the average American trusts implicitly the American govt. America has a modern love affair with the State.

Most people will be willing to allow the govt to make the call as to when to use the Patriot Act. By that I mean that the Patriot Act is supposed to be used only on "suspected terrorists" and not to be used on "normal citizens". I think most Americans trust the American govt to make that distinction and to not abuse that power. "Let Caesar protect me and I'll give him my freedom."

Bush could not have pushed this through if people actually cared about their freedoms. I've heard scarcely a word in either conservative or liberal forums. This complacency will accelerate The Patriot Act's abuse (kind of like RICO).

I don't think the average American trusts the government in all areas implicitly.

People love their freedoms, and their sense of freedom was challenged on 911.

What is not fully understood by the critics is that this is all new to Americans. We have lived removed from war on our shores for quitely a long time. There is no living American who can remember an attack on the mainland USA, so it seems far removed from our society to think we could be attacked by a foreign agent.

Oklahoma City was an attack of sorts, but it did not capture the imagination of the country the way the WTC and 911 did.

Perhaps that was because of the nature of the attack, perhaps because of the type of attack, perhaps because of those who were behind the attack and have taken responsibility for the attack are more than a lone individual or two.

911 caught America off guard. Naturally, there is a reaction that borders on over reaction, and also a willingness by Americans to allow the government to do their job.

The current administration has no experience in this area, no one really does. They are trying some things, if they don't work, we will try something that does and provides a proper balance between security and freedom. It may take the a decade to really sort out what happened and how best to deal with it and future attacks.

If the government is not able to do their job, which is national defense and national security, and if freedoms are taken away unnecessarily from freedom loving citizens, the people will react against such measures.

A new administration will arise to meet the desires of the people. It has happened before, it will happen again.

The pendulum was pulled dramatically to one side, and it will swing back.

These things just take time to normalize, as the United States is forced to adjust to globalization, terrorism, and living among the world community as a leader---yet understanding of other cultures and their different perspectives on life.

It will take time, but we will get there.

 

[marketsurfer]

not to comment on the underlying issue, BUT should a preemptive impeachment occur, the equity markets will enter a downward spiral of death such as never witnessed in the united states. there will truly be blood in the street.

best,

surf

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from marketsurfer:

not to comment on the underlying issue, BUT should a preemptive impeachment occur, the equity markets will enter a downward spiral of death such as never witnessed in the united states. there will truly be blood in the street.

best,

surf

Should some dirty nuke go off in DC or other major metropolitan area----or some other painful terrorist attack, the markets would sell off too, and a dirty nuke/terrorist event is a lot more likely than impeachment in a Republican controlled house and senate.

 

[metooxx]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I'm out of touch: how has the Bush administration moved closer to a police state? (I've seen a few liberties chipped away but, from what I've read, nothing drastic.)

You are kidding; right ...

 

[metooxx]

Quote from wild:




This Law is Dangerous

The USA Patriot Act is an insult to Americans. The name, itself, is insulting, given what the Act contains and what it will someday be known for: its complete abdication of democratic law and principles. It should be called the Constitution Shredding Act.

In particular, it utterly relinquishes any semblance of due process, violates the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments, and unacceptably mixes aspects of criminal investigations with aspects of immigration and foreign intelligence laws.

Let me state it even more bluntly. This law is dangerous. It’s a travesty.

...

Repeal the USA Patriot Act http://www.truthout.com/docs_02/04.02A.JVB.Patriot.htm

Agree, wholeheartedly ...

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

**************************************************
You are kidding; right ...
**************************************************

Nope, I'm embarrassed to admit. This was a wake up call. Gotta cut back on the backtesting and start reading more political commentary and social analysis I guess!

I wanted to know more about the Patriot Act but just never ran across a good link. There's lots of other people out there in the same boat. My guess is that the majority of Americans have never heard of the Patriot Act and the great majority of the remainder do not understand the implications.

I hope O'777 is right and the common will and good sense of the American will make this a decent place to live in a few decades for my little preschooler...

 

[plumlazy]

Originally posted by optional777

Oklahoma City was an attack of sorts, but it did not capture the imagination of the country the way the WTC and 911 did.

Perhaps that was because of the nature of the attack, perhaps because of the type of attack, perhaps because of those who were behind the attack and have taken responsibility for the attack are more than a lone individual or two.

Or perhaps it was because the attack was done by a crazed american and we already killed the bastard.

 

[nitro]

Ah,

Aren't we at war?

nitro

 

[rs7]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:



911 caught America off guard. Naturally, there is a reaction that borders on over reaction, and also a willingness by Americans to allow the government to do their job.

The current administration has no experience in this area, no one really does. They are trying some things, if they don't work, we will try something that does and provides a proper balance between security and freedom. It may take the a decade to really sort out what happened and how best to deal with it and future attacks.

If the government is not able to do their job, which is national defense and national security, and if freedoms are taken away unnecessarily from freedom loving citizens, the people will react against such measures.

A new administration will arise to meet the desires of the people. It has happened before, it will happen again.

The pendulum was pulled dramatically to one side, and it will swing back.

These things just take time to normalize, as the United States is forced to adjust to globalization, terrorism, and living among the world community as a leader---yet understanding of other cultures and their different perspectives on life.

It will take time, but we will get there.

Beautifully stated!!!

And these are the kinds of words that we should expect to hear from truly patriotic Americans. Because being a "patriot" does not mean being a flag waving "my country, right or wrong" type. It is about understanding the concepts of our constitution. And that "new administrations" and even more drastic changes are part of the plan to make our government continue to function. The USA has, I believe, the longest currently existing government on the planet. Or at least of any government of real significance. If the Kingdom of Fiji, or the Fiefdom of Poontang has been around longer (and I don't know if this may be the case), so what? America has been and will be a formidable power for a very long time. Because, unlike other "experiments" in government, ours includes in the very foundation the right of the people to make whatever changes become necessary. In other words, we have a flexible government. One that was designed to change with the times.

And the beauty of all this, is that change is not just permissible, but actually encouraged for the maintenance of our basic rights. Our freedoms. Our "inalienable rights" are what we will fight for and die for. We may legally overthrow our government if it is in the interest of keeping our freedoms. Our founding fathers had their shit very well together. They realized that they were fallible. So they put in safeguards. They anticipated the possibilities of needing to amend our constitution. And we have. Many times. And this works.

So, like Optional777 says, even if it takes some time...some "trial and error", making policy "on the fly", we will come through. We always have, and hopefully always will. We have certainly committed atrocities. Yet the government did not fall. It changed. It admitted it's mistakes. It has tried to make good on the mistakes that were the law, and were later realized to be wrong. There have been reparations. There have been apologies that were entered into the congressional record. No government is perfect. Because nothing is perfect. (Except for a baseball diamond....whole different issue, and I will be glad to defend my thoughts on that at another time if anyone disagrees). But, again, to paraphrase Optional777, the pendulum will come back into balance every time it gets too far off the mark. It is impossible to predict the future. So occasionally we need to re-adjust our ways. But at least we can. This is what makes us unique. And great.

Those who criticize the policies and the laws of America may on occasion, have valid points. But at least here, they can express their opinions. Our greatest freedom....freedom of speech is what makes the system work.

Those who hate America don't even have a clue about who or what they hate. Because it is those people's very beliefs that are protected here more than anywhere else. Say and believe whatever you want. Pray to any god you want. Assemble and make speeches with legal rights. Hell, even brown shirt nazis are permitted to gather, march their goose steps if they feel so inclined (compelled?) and spew their hate. They have the right to publish their opinions. Their positions. They can make speeches and even run for governmental office. The only thing they cannot do is use violence to express their views. And so the enemies of America are truly enemies of themselves. Here we tolerate the most radical and most hateful groups. As long as they don't pose a clear and present danger to the rest of us. The ACLU protects the rights of their own most aggressively vocal critics. Why? Because if they did not, then they would be guilty of hypocrisy. Frequently, we have the ACLU and the NAACP (or ADL, or other civil rights groups) on opposite sides of certain issues. Yet they coexist because they are comprised of believers of freedom. And that is the common denominator of what America is, and what Americans are.

Peace,
rs7

 

[plumlazy]

originally posted by rs7

Yet they coexist because they are comprised of believers of freedom. And that is the common denominator of what America is, and what Americans are.

Amen to that!!!

Also ditto on an amen to optional777 post.

The Bush adminstration is doing a good job, imo. Sure they will make mistakes. However, on 911 America was sucker punched. Not to mention other sucker punches over the last ten years.

At least George W. is taking some action and saying in effect that this sucker punch is not going to be freebie.