The "Holy Grail"

OldTrader,

I can't argue with experience. As I said, time is what sorts out all the crap. Looking forward to your posts.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the changes you have observed since online trading became so popular, and how you have compensated for the change to decimals.
 
Originally posted by OldTrader
Hi Guys:

Hope you're all able to read this...can't figure out how to respond directly to someone.

I didn't choose my name lightly..."OldTrader". I made my first trade in about 1965...an odd lot of Studebaker at an account at Merrill Lynch opened with a phoney ID to show I was 21. LOL. Didn't even drink at the time.

About 10 years later I became a stockbroker...the Dow was about 600 back then.

When the Value Line stock index future first started trading in the 80's...I traded it. Later when the SP futures started trading, I traded them. Ultimately I quit my job as a broker to trade futures from home...later on the floor.

These days I trade the futures and stocks from home. I've been trading for about 35 years, leaving out a couple of years for VietNam.

Most of you guys are probably using intraday charts to scalp. It might interest you to know that at one time pre computers back in the 80's, I had a quotron in my house that I paid $1K per month just for quotes....I drew a little hand chart while I watched prices on the Quotron.

I suppose you know that the big traders and the floor traders know that when they push prices in certain directions they can cause all the guys watching machines and intraday charts to act. And I know you know that they consistently run stops above the highs and lows of the day(s), or other logical points.

Anyone here who believes they can watch a couple of intraday indicators and/or moving averages and become independently wealthy is smoking dope IMHO.

That 200 day average that you refer to works when it works. But you know and I know that sometimes it doesn't.

How many head and shoulders formations have you seen where it breaks down just far enough to trap everyone, then reverses straight up?

How many times have you seen the days high or low taken out just before a big move took place?

I'm not trying to discourage using charts or anything else necessarily. I'm just trying to say there's no substitute for thought. Indicators are man's attempt to pretend that the markets are somehow controllable. They aren't. You use your head, you manage your trade.

My intent here is not to offend anyone...just to express an opinion.
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i love this guy already! :) as soon as i read he opened up his first account with a fake id and that he started when the dow was at 600, i knew who i was dealing with. anyone who's been able to trade this long knows his stuff! this guy drew his own charts by hand when they came across the quotron!!!

anyway, oldtrader, just wanted to say thanks for sharing your story with us and i hope you continue to post here. :)
 
OldTrader, these questions are for you!

Originally posted by OldTrader
I think you've made an important discovery...that indicators don't mean much. And chances are that sooner or later you'll discover that moving averages don't mean much either.
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yes, i too, am in the process of making this discovery. however, this leads to more questions. how important is the entry? i'm aware that trade management is the key, but you still need some type of entry or you're throwing darts. if indicators don't mean much, what criteria should we use for finding a trade to enter? i don't assume you are entering trades at random? if you don't enter at random and indicators don't mean much, how do you determine a trade to enter?
Originally posted by OldTrader
I suppose you know that the big traders and the floor traders know that when they push prices in certain directions they can cause all the guys watching machines and intraday charts to act. And I know you know that they consistently run stops above the highs and lows of the day(s), or other logical points.
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yes, i'm aware of this. are you saying we should not put stops at logical points? should we put them at an illogical point? or should we not even use these traditional stops at all? knowing that your above quote is true, how do you deal with it?
Originally posted by OldTrader
That 200 day average that you refer to works when it works. But you know and I know that sometimes it doesn't.

How many head and shoulders formations have you seen where it breaks down just far enough to trap everyone, then reverses straight up?

How many times have you seen the days high or low taken out just before a big move took place?
More...
i agree with everything you said. but again, even if we accept this as true, how do we deal with it?
Originally posted by OldTrader
Indicators are man's attempt to pretend that the markets are somehow controllable. They aren't. You use your head, you manage your trade.
More...
your post is a true gem. like i said in my other post to you, i'm glad you're here. if you could respond to any of my questions, it would be much appreciated.

thank you!
 
My biggest mistake when I first started trading was to over trade. Be patient! Let the trade come to you, don't chase a trade just to be in the action. I cant tell you how many times I saw the perfect entry point unfolding in front of me except I was already in the trade 20 minutes ago now just hoping to limit my loss. Have fun and may the trading gods smile down on you. Mike
 
nasdaqmadness,

Yes, that sums up my biggest discipline problem. If I'm trading for 8 hours and I only get to make 3 good trades and they only last for 5-30 minutes, then I'm basically spending the majority of my time waiting.

I think most people who are ambitious feel like waiting is getting them no where -- but that's probably the opposite of truth when it comes to trading. Waiting is WORK.

Probably a lot of people, when the market really starts moving, feel like they need to be onboard throughout the day.

Even on the simulator, I often find myself getting very bored waiting and wanting to scalp for .50's-.75's or 1's, but that isn't good in the long run!
 
I have lurked on these boards reading them daily long before I ever registered on this site and have finally found the post that I feel deserves my 1st response. IMHO oldtrader has finally been the one to offer perhaps the best advice to traders of all ages. I, although a little later than he, started trading in 1972 at age 23 with an account at Bache @ Co and still remember vividly all the old timers drawing their charts by hand as we sat at the brokerage reading the tape as it scrolled by and standing guard over the news ticker. All I ever wanted was to pick the brains of the oldtimers to find what the magic solution to trading was. To this day I have never found it and doubt that anyone ever will. I have been successfully trading full time for a living for 20 years now, and no greater wisdom will be found for any price than what is found in Oldtraders post. Cudos Oldtrader.
 
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