The Herd, Vaccine and Natural Immunity Thread....

Van_der_Voort_4 said:
I did watch the video base rate fallacy-thanks @wrbtrader

Now i magnified my previous charts,Israel vaccinated rate stays nearly the same and cases are rising by a lot
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Isn't this telling us that something else is in play,not just base rate fallacy?


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I really do not follow Israel nor do I live there. Thus, if you're trying to find fault or other reasons outside of the base rate fallacy...good luck with that but I do understand if its important to you if you actually lived in Israel.
  • Israel does have excellent numbers in effectiveness of its vaccines.
Yet, I do see a problem in the media and many message posts here at ET in that many people get confused about the difference or importance between the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines.

Like the FLU...Covid is going to be with us for a very long time and because of such...healthcare policies and our lives may be forever changed...I think it's coined a new normal. Therefore, I'm focusing on other issues as I mentioned before.
  • I'm more interested in a vaccine's effective ability to prevent hospitalization, ICU admissions, and death.
WeTodd mentioned Pfizer and its 42% (not peer-reviewed) efficacy in a single state...Minnesota. I'm fully vaccinated with Moderna. Thus, I'll compare the two.
  • Both were also highly effective against hospitalization (Moderna 91.6%, Pfizer 85%), ICU admission (Moderna 93.3%, Pfizer 87%), and death from COVID-19 (no cases found).
Hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and Deaths are the key categories being used by governments to decide on health care policies that impact their citizens. To me, that's the big picture whereas efficacy is less important to me in comparison to the effectiveness of vaccines.

You should notice by now that PHARMA used the efficacy to initially market their vaccines to countries. Many countries paid a different price...I believe Israel paid the most for the vaccines because they wanted to be first in line to gain access to the vaccines...whereas countries like the United States and Canada paid 50% less.

I don't know the exact numbers but the latter two countries paid noticeably less for the vaccines in comparison to Israel. Now PHARMA is starting to focus on the effectiveness of their vaccines (rightfully so) while people are debating about the efficacy.

As a consumer, I'm concentrating on the effectiveness of the vaccine because I'm the one that got the Moderna jab. Thus, my concern is that if I do have a breakthrough infection...I want to avoid hospitalization, ICU, and obviously Death.

Reminder, I almost died in the fall of 2016. Life support, coma for two months...medvac from one country to another country, and then a few more months in the hospital for recovery.

No way in hell am I going through that shit again which is why I'm concentrating on the effectiveness of the vaccines to keep me out of the hospital. I've met Death twice...I'm not interested in a 3rd encounter any time soon.

wrbtrader
 
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WeToddDid2 said:
Massive super spreader event!

It looks like there is a high probability that someone will die due to Obama's extreme narcissism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...positive-Covid-Obamas-60th-birthday-bash.html

EXCLUSIVE: At least 74 people on Martha's Vineyard have tested positive for Covid-19 since Barack Obama's maskless 60th birthday bash - the most cases on the island since April
  • A total of 74 people on Martha's Vineyard have tested positive for Covid-19 since former President Barack Obama's 60th birthday on Saturday
  • The spike in cases is more than any week since April on Martha's Vineyard
  • Health officials note it's still too early to know whether the hundreds of guests and workers at the maskless parties have contributed to the surge in cases
  • 'At this time we're not aware of any cases connected to the Obama party,' a Tisbury health agent and boards of health spokesperson told DailyMail.com
  • 'It's a little too early and the only way we're going to know is through comprehensive contact tracing,' they added
  • Hundreds of people attended the party, flying in from around the country and congregating under tents where partiers danced, ate and drank the night away
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The narrative in extreme liberal media is that it was not a super spreader event. Why not? Well, they cannot blame one of their extreme liberal favorites, Obama. He can do no wrong. He also, got his mansion at a huge bargain. It only cost him $11.75 million and for such a large mansion on 29 acres, which is a lot of land, it most likely, cost more but, his financiers made sure he got the very best deal in an exclusive, neighborhood as well.
 
Here Comes Nosocomial DISASTER

Methods: We studied breakthrough infections among healthcare workers of a major infectious diseases hospital in Vietnam.

Reasonable conclusions drawn from this data:
    • The vaccines do not prevent health care workers from getting infected; the antibodies are ineffective.
    • When health care workers get infected post-vaccination with Delta they are not becoming infected from the community; they are passing it among each other.
    • Their viral loads and thus infectiousness are extremely high; in other words they become a reservoir of extreme infection risk to other employees in the facility and, it must be assumed to the patients in their care.
    • A reasonable hypothesis (but not proved) is that the vaccines are in fact potentiating viral replication via ADE-type effects, specifically given the paper I pointed to yesterday. That is the act of encouraging or even forcing medical workers to take the jabs is leading to higher viral loads and thus greater infectiousness -- that is, greater risk to patients rather than less.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243270

Stanford University to require weekly COVID testing, regardless of vaccination status

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/11/stanford-university-to-require-weekly-covid-testing-regardless-of-vaccination-status/?
 
Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?

Current Covid-19 vaccines (either mRNA or viral vectors) are based on the original Wuhan spike sequence. Inasmuch as neutralizing antibodies overwhelm facilitating antibodies, ADE is not a concern. However, the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 variants may tip the scales in favor of infection enhancement. Our structural and modelling data suggest that it might be indeed the case for Delta variants.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext
 
Van_der_Voort_4 said:
Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?

Current Covid-19 vaccines (either mRNA or viral vectors) are based on the original Wuhan spike sequence. Inasmuch as neutralizing antibodies overwhelm facilitating antibodies, ADE is not a concern. However, the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 variants may tip the scales in favor of infection enhancement. Our structural and modelling data suggest that it might be indeed the case for Delta variants.

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext
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gwb-trading said:
As noted multiple times... .the increased case count in Iceland simply shows Iceland opened up for tourism on March 17th and lifted all local restrictions on July 1st. Rational people recognize this has a direct relationship to the rising cases. Context is important. The other important point is that the recent breakthrough cases are of the Delta variant.

As stated by health officials in Iceland -- imagine how high the case rate would be if the vaccination level was not so high. 86.3% of the eligible population is fully vaccinated. As noted by Icelandic health officials there will be breakthrough cases when facing the Delta variant -- but nearly all of these cases have been mild (over 99%).
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Iceland is proof that COVID-19 vaccines work, a leading US expert said. Infections are at record highs, but the nation hasn't recorded a single virus death since May.
https://www.businessinsider.com/iceland-proves-covid-19-vaccines-work-expert-no-death-may-2021-8
  • Iceland proves that COVID-19 vaccines work, a leading US infectious disease expert said.
  • Most new infections are among vaccinated people, but only a tiny number end up in hospital.
  • The country has not recorded a COVID-19 death since May 25.
(More at above url)
 
Van_der_Voort_4 said:
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Well over 80% of people in top Fortune 500 companies support mandatory vaccination for being allowed in the office. Many companies will be accommodating the unvaccinated employees by allowing them to be remote -- but only for a period of time.

Many top companies in the Tech, Financial, Banking, Pharma/Medical, Law, Insurance, and other sectors have already mandated vaccinations for those present in the office -- there has been very little push-back by employees.
 
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