The Herd, Vaccine and Natural Immunity Thread....

[jem]

you are such a lying piece of shit....
how delusional are you? gwb... .

this was from the article you posted today... and the study is from the link in the article.
see the underline and the bold...



https://www.ibtimes.com/individual-...uld-last-days-decades-scientists-find-3168292


"The presence of T-cell immunity provides hope of longer-term protection which will require more studies and time for epidemiological and clinical evidence to confirm," the author said.

and so clicked on the study...

Here is the part which not only discusses the concept of t cell immunity... it actually studied it.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00025-2/fulltext

For a subset of 23 samples randomly selected from each group at day 180, we tested T cells that were reactive to peptides of S, M, NP, ORF3a, and ORF7/8 proteins to investigate if there was a correlation between T-cell immunity and different antibody kinetics. We made two observations (appendix p 6). First, all patients in each group maintained substantial specific T-cells at 180 days post-symptom onset and the T-cell response was multi-specific, with most donors having T-cells reactive to NP, M, and S. Second, there was no clear difference in T-cell immunity between the groups, consistent with previous findings.

There is not a single reputable peer-reviewed medical paper demonstrating that there is "T-Cell" immunity to COVID in a study with a group of people. This is nonsense floated by COVID deniers to claim we have reached "natural herd immunity" despite antibody tests showing less than 10% of the population (at the time) with antibodies. It is time we stopped paying attention to non-scientific nonsense pushed by COVID-deniers which is laughed at by the mainstream medical community.

 

[gwb-trading]

you are such a lying piece of shit....
how delusional are you? gwb... . this was your article today...

I just posted this from your article and the link to the study in your article.
This is one of multiple studies I have presented to you.



https://www.ibtimes.com/individual-...uld-last-days-decades-scientists-find-3168292


"The presence of T-cell immunity provides hope of longer-term protection which will require more studies and time for epidemiological and clinical evidence to confirm," the author said.

and so clicked on the study...

Here is the part which not only discusses the concept of t cell immunity... it actually studied it.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00025-2/fulltext

For a subset of 23 samples randomly selected from each group at day 180, we tested T cells that were reactive to peptides of S, M, NP, ORF3a, and ORF7/8 proteins to investigate if there was a correlation between T-cell immunity and different antibody kinetics. We made two observations (appendix p 6). First, all patients in each group maintained substantial specific T-cells at 180 days post-symptom onset and the T-cell response was multi-specific, with most donors having T-cells reactive to NP, M, and S. Second, there was no clear difference in T-cell immunity between the groups, consistent with previous findings.

So where is your peer reviewed study over a statistically significant group of people --- you don't have one. Also adding that you don;t even understand what the text you are quoting out of context even means .

 

[jem]

wow are you desperate illogical lying fucking moron...


it was your article and your study today...

from the Lancet...


All research articles submitted to the Lancet journals are first reviewed by our in-house team of expert editors. ... All original research articles published in the Lancet journals have undergone independent, external peer review, including statistical review.

Publishing Excellence - The Lancet

So where is your peer reviewed study over a statistically significant group of people --- you don't have one. Also adding that you don;t even understand what the text you are quoting out of context even means .

 

[gwb-trading]

wow are you desperate illogical lying fucking moron...


it was your article and your study today...

from the Lancet...


All research articles submitted to the Lancet journals are first reviewed by our in-house team of expert editors. ... All original research articles published in the Lancet journals have undergone independent, external peer review, including statistical review.

Publishing Excellence - The Lancet

And once again you are taking a couple sentences out of context to push a false narrative. Which is quite normal for you.

 

[jem]

your article in perfect context and then I went to the study in the lancet and confirmed it you lying douchebag...
you have been lying and wrong for over a year... and you are still lying today...



https://www.ibtimes.com/individual-...uld-last-days-decades-scientists-find-3168292


"The presence of T-cell immunity provides hope of longer-term protection which will require more studies and time for epidemiological and clinical evidence to confirm," the author said.

and so clicked on the study...

Here is the part which not only discusses the concept of t cell immunity... it actually studied it.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00025-2/fulltext

For a subset of 23 samples randomly selected from each group at day 180, we tested T cells that were reactive to peptides of S, M, NP, ORF3a, and ORF7/8 proteins to investigate if there was a correlation between T-cell immunity and different antibody kinetics. We made two observations (appendix p 6). First, all patients in each group maintained substantial specific T-cells at 180 days post-symptom onset and the T-cell response was multi-specific, with most donors having T-cells reactive to NP, M, and S. Second, there was no clear difference in T-cell immunity between the groups, consistent with previous findings.

And once again you are taking a couple sentences out of context to push a false narrative. Which is quite normal for you.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

There is not a single reputable peer-reviewed medical paper demonstrating that there is "T-Cell" immunity to COVID in a study with a group of people. This is nonsense floated by COVID deniers to claim we have reached "natural herd immunity" despite antibody tests showing less than 10% of the population (at the time) with antibodies. It is time we stopped paying attention to non-scientific nonsense pushed by COVID-deniers which is laughed at by the mainstream medical community.

You are wandering all over the place trying to respond to my points by responding to other people that you have baggage with. My point was that if you want to trash T cells for all of your various reasons that trying to make the point that with antibodies (allegedly unlike t cells in your arguement) you get neutralizing knock out on contract and no transmission then that has not been established.

T cells are not antibodies. duh. They work differently but since I do not have baggage with others in this discussion or with things that have been posted elsewhere I do not have any problem recognizing the value of each. Somewhere in the past, very early on, you developed a real hatred and boner for T cells. Okay, I guess. No skin off my nose. I just dont have any baggage there though.

It goes beyond what i want churn through in a post but T cells need to see an infection first before being activated and then they go away. They do not just float in the serum as antibodies do. Antibodies can engage the virus in the blood and other fluids which a T cell cannot do. On the other hand, once a virus has penetrated a cell wall and entered the cell, an antibody can do nothing. Whereas a T cell can go into the cell and do some damage to the virus.

The level of antibodies in the blood is not totally or even remotely definitive in determining whether immunity sufficient to prevent serious illness exists. If they are high that is good, but they will always wane over time. The question is whether the native cells that were programmed to recognize the antigen are still programmed to create the antibodies if confronted with the virus again. In other words, the virus ceases to be a novel virus to the person and the population. Such that you may get sick but people/the population have some cellular programming to recognize it and send out help immediately. The flu for example is absolutely deadly if you an amazon tribe with no contact. With most westerners it is no longer a novel virus. It can make you sick but is only deadly to the very weakened. My point being that cellular programming is key and may or may not result in current levels of antibodies being high after some months have gone by.

T cells are good things. So are antibodies. So are native cells, and adaptive cells and .....

How everything fits in with all the various discussions and baggage you have from other postings, I don't know. I have not kept up. Last I knew, T-cells were a no go zone for you because someone else was saying this or that. Looks like you are still stuck there.

T-cells. Don't leave home without em. Most researchers are still trying to squeeze out even more knowledge about them. They don't know that it is a no go zone I guess.

How ‘killer’ T cells could boost COVID immunity in face of new variants
In the race against emerging coronavirus variants, researchers are looking beyond antibodies for clues to lasting protection from COVID-19.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00367-7

 

[jem]

gwb-trading said:


"As explained multiple times already -- and backed by medical information -- there is no such thing as T-Cell Immunity for COVID-19."

 

[gwb-trading]

gwb-trading said:


As explained multiple times already -- and backed by medical information -- there is no such thing as T-Cell Immunity for COVID-19.

Let's take a step back to reality. You previously tried to weave a narrative that Sweden had "natural herd immunity" due to their policy of not locking down early in the pandemic. When they actually did COVID anti-body tests across Swedish society they found at most 10% of people in urban areas recovered from COVID and had anti-bodies. Obviously this is nowhere near the 70% or above required for herd immunity.

After this you spun the narrative that the Swedes acquired "natural herd immunity" via "T-cell immunity" and due to this all these Swedes were immune despite what the anti-body tests showed.

Why don't we go to Sweden now with Europe's highest rate for cases and ask them how your fabled "T-cell immunity" is working out.

"T-cell immunity" to COVID is similar to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny it is a mythical figment of your imagination.

Now stop parroting his "T-Cell immunity" nonsense from your COVID-denier buddies -- and go learn how medicine & science work.

 

[jem]

Looking at you, trying to change the subject....

I note... I spoke of herd immunity in other areas as well.. including an article in the New York Times I think stating parts of Queens New York were benefitting from herd immunity... (in may have been Astoria Queens if I recall)

But... lets not forget... your lie after lie after lie on Today's subject. ..

----
gwb-trading said:


"As explained multiple times already -- and backed by medical information -- there is no such thing as T-Cell Immunity for COVID-19."

Let's take a step back to reality. You previously tried to weave a narrative that Sweden had "natural herd immunity" due to their policy of not locking down early in the pandemic. When they actually did COVID anti-body tests across Swedish society they found at most 10% of people in urban areas recovered from COVID and had anti-bodies. Obviously this is nowhere near the 70% or above required for herd immunity.

After this you spun the narrative that the Swedes acquired "natural herd immunity" via "T-cell immunity" and due to this all these Swedes were immune despite what the anti-body tests showed.

Why don't we go to Sweden now with Europe's highest rate for cases and ask them how your fabled "T-cell immunity" is working out.

"T-cell immunity" to COVID is similar to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny it is a mythical figment of your imagination.

Now stop parroting his "T-Cell immunity" nonsense from your COVID-denier buddies -- and go learn how medicine & science work.

 

[gwb-trading]

Looking at you, trying to change the subject....

I note... I spoke of herd immunity in other areas as well.. including an article in the New York Times I think stating parts of Queens New York were benefitting from herd immunity... (in may have been Astoria Queens if I recall)

But... lets not forget... your lie after lie after lie on Today's subject. ..

----
gwb-trading said:


"As explained multiple times already -- and backed by medical information -- there is no such thing as T-Cell Immunity for COVID-19."

Sadly -- the articles and study you reference only stated that scientists are trying to find T-Cell Immunity in their research... So far they have been unsuccessful. Too bad you don't understand facts or context.