The Hard Questions

[Good1]

"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18 NKJV

So getting back to the sinfulness of faith, it's because it is initially ignorant of knowledge. The initial chapters of your favorite cosmological story even condemns knowledge as a universal good, condemning the universality of its distribution by a good Supreme Being. And in its insistence that a good Supreme Being would not distribute knowledge equally and entirely, it blasphemes any Good that is Supreme.

Here, in what you quoted, it clearly says, prima facia, that you were "condemned already" presumably because of what you did or didn't believe about the "son of god".

I'm just pointing out that the beginning of your world, the depraved world of man, begins because of a condemnation of knowledge that is replaced with an idolization of faith. And as a man woman or child, you are indeed "condemned already" because of your preference for faith over knowledge. You have even made knowledge out to be sinful. In condemning knowledge you have condemned yourself to a dark world built on faith.

This world, the substance of which was, and remains faith, is your doing, not the doing of what/who is Good.

Indeed, a world of faith is built upon ignorance of Good, as well the "Son of Good", who would be just as knowlegeable about knowledge as Good is.

Heretofor, then, from the beginning of your world, you and your ancestors have believed blasphemous things about what is who is Good.

I am giving you a chance to repent, but instead you continue on with this arrogant justification and glorification of your faith...in a blasphemous book!

How is what I've just said not in the "Bible"?

 

[studentofthemarkets]

The bible is not wholly believable given the nature of parables . A parable is not something you believe, but rather *understand*.

Take the popular ethnic salacious liturature called "The Song of Solomon". What exactly is there to believe? It appears to illustrate a man's lust for a woman but I can't be too certain of that. What man? What woman? I have no clue. Solomon? I don't know. A concubine? One of 500 concubines? I don't know.

So when you say you believe ancient ethnic liturature what exactly are you even believing?

Some say the narrative of lust is a parable. Ok, so what do you believe? Parables do not explicitly contain their own de-coded meanings. So who is telling you what the lust really means? Is it they/them whom you believe? If so, then you believe them, and what they say about the book. Meanwhile the book remains unbelievable . Prima facia it appears to be the musings of a rich man, presuming it costs a lot of money to write racy longings on parchment. But I still don't know what to believe about it because it doesn't lend itself to interpretation as if it were a parable.

How is it you know what to believe about the Song of Solomon?

When, exactly, was the moment you decided you believed the Son of Solomon?

Did you start believing on a Saturday at 3 p.m.?

What were you thinking the moment you decided you believed the Song of Solomon?

Were you thinking, 'Yes, on a hot afternoon in 2003 BC Solomon did historically lust after a woman '?

Were you thinking it was "God-breathed"?

Good1 wrote: "The bible is not wholly believable given the nature of parables . A parable is not something you believe, but rather *understand*.

Take the popular ethnic salacious liturature called "The Song of Solomon". What exactly is there to believe? It appears to illustrate a man's lust for a woman but I can't be too certain of that........." not quoting the rest.

On a personal note, I have always thought it has been inspired by God, because it is in the Bible. Another topic that should be discussed at some point on this thread or maybe another would be looking at how the 66 books of the Bible came to be thought of as the complete, infallible Word of God by protestants and why some of the books of the Catholic Bible have been excluded.

Also on a personal note, is that there are verses in the Song of Solomon that have meaning to me as a Christian because it portrays the picture of love of God for Israel and Christ for the Church. Verse 6:3, "I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine." Compare that to John 14:21, "He who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

The love expressed between King Solomon and his Shulammite wife is a description of married life. Verse 3:11 comes a little later in the book, but refers to an earlier event: "With the crown with which his mother crowned him on the day of his wedding, the day of the gladness of his heart."

I think gotquestions has a good summary of the book and here is a quote from there https://www.gotquestions.org/Shulammite-woman.html:
I added bold lettering and spacing for emphasis.

Solomon uses passionate language to describe his bride and their love (Song 4:1–15). Solomon clearly loved the Shulammite—and he admired her character as well as her beauty (Song 6:9).​

Everything about the Song of Solomon betrays the fact that this bride and groom were passionately in love and that there were mutual respect and friendship, as well (Song 8:6–7).​

This points to the fact that the Song of Solomon is the story of Solomon’s first marriage, before he sinned by adding many other wives (1 Kings 11:3).​

Whoever the Shulammite was, she was Solomon’s first and truest love.​

 

[studentofthemarkets]

So getting back to the sinfulness of faith, it's because it is initially ignorant of knowledge. The initial chapters of your favorite cosmological story even condemns knowledge as a universal good, condemning the universality of its distribution by a good Supreme Being. And in its insistence that a good Supreme Being would not distribute knowledge equally and entirely, it blasphemes any Good that is Supreme.

Here, in what you quoted, it clearly says, prima facia, that you were "condemned already" presumably because of what you did or didn't believe about the "son of god".

I'm just pointing out that the beginning of your world, the depraved world of man, begins because of a condemnation of knowledge that is replaced with an idolization of faith. And as a man woman or child, you are indeed "condemned already" because of your preference for faith over knowledge. You have even made knowledge out to be sinful. In condemning knowledge you have condemned yourself to a dark world built on faith.

This world, the substance of which was, and remains faith, is your doing, not the doing of what/who is Good.

Indeed, a world of faith is built upon ignorance of Good, as well the "Son of Good", who would be just as knowlegeable about knowledge as Good is.

Heretofor, then, from the beginning of your world, you and your ancestors have believed blasphemous things about what is who is Good.

I am giving you a chance to repent, but instead you continue on with this arrogant justification and glorification of your faith...in a blasphemous book!

How is what I've just said not in the "Bible"?

Good1's 2nd reply: "I am giving you a chance to repent, but instead you continue on with this arrogant justification...."

I'm not going to respond to your nonsense.

But I will post 1 verse:

"Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY." Luke 4:8

 

[studentofthemarkets]

First of all belief, believing, and faith are sins. They are sins against knowledge. The most basic love of wisdom should tell you that believing and knowledge are exclusive opposites that cannot coexist . Either you know or you believe. You cannot believe what you know and you cannot know what you believe.

So why do you think you've done something honorable by choosing a moment in time to believe something as obscure, dark, non-transparent and confusing as a book that combines parables with historical accounts of wars and census takings?

You believe whats put forth as historical actually happened?

What do you believe about the proverbs? All true?

What do you believe about the prayers? All said?

What do you believe about the parables? All true?

But how can a parable be true when you don't even understand what it means ?

Do you believe what your pastor tells you about the parables ?

Can a historical event also be a parable from which to draw lessons?

Where is the understanding of a parable located ? In the parable (book/bible) itself? In your mind? Where is your mind?

Supposing the crucifixion of Jesus was historical, can it also be a parable or even a parody?

Likewise the resurrection of Jesus . History, parable, parody?

If Jesus taught in parables, why do you think the cross and resurrection were not teachable moments to be interpreted and understood ?

The parable of the prodigal son for example. Why do you not believe it is the story of the beginning and end of the world of man?

Also, why do you not believe that the intra-biblical term "god of this world" is not a reference to the maker of man's world? Or, how do you take something so prima fascia obvious and force a completely different meaning on it, as if there was some other god other than the god of this world?

More nonsense by Good1 (3rd post) "First of all belief, believing, and faith are sins. They are sins against knowledge......" deleting the rest

Matthew 4:10 "Away from me, Satan!" Jesus declared. "For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"

 

[studentofthemarkets]

Expiated: Do you have any thoughts on what to do about the trolls on this thread? I can't read their stuff without cringing and feeling like it needs to be answered, so I generally do. However, engaging with them is not productive.

I can't be like you and put people on ignore. I could leave the thread and then I won't know what they are saying and it won't bother me. Or I could keep posting Bible verses after their trolling comments, but since you run the thread, I'd like to know what you think before making a decision.

 

[studentofthemarkets]

According to https://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipotence, God is omnipotent.


Similarly, https://www.openbible.info/topics/omniscience says God is omniscient.


Also, omnipresent. https://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence


Why would someone all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere at all times need to be defended?

Ph1l: Why would someone all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere at all times need to be defended?

And how is it that Jesus is both God and King and yet the Bible says that currently Satan is ruling?

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4
​

There is a spiritual battle going on in this world. Jesus told His disciples that we are to be His witnesses. That is how God planned to have His message revealed. God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. God could put the message in the sky if He wanted to. Or He could just reveal Himself visibly, if He wanted to....oh, hey, it says, He WILL someday in the future. And actually, He did reveal Himself visibly in the past many times as recorded in the Old Testament. But for now, God set it up for those who belong to him to share about Him with others. That includes defending the truths of the Bible against the lies of the devil.

"Then He" (Jesus) "said to them, 'Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nation, beginning at Jerusalem. And you are witnesses of these things." Luke 24:46-48

 

[studentofthemarkets]

Expiated: Do you have any thoughts on what to do about the trolls on this thread? I can't read their stuff without cringing and feeling like it needs to be answered, so I generally do. However, engaging with them is not productive.

I can't be like you and put people on ignore. I could leave the thread and then I won't know what they are saying and it won't bother me. Or I could keep posting Bible verses after their trolling comments, but since you run the thread, I'd like to know what you think before making a decision.

@expiated:

Apparently Good1 just opened up his own thread to deliberately counter what is posted on this one. Just thought you should know, since you have him blocked. Thankfully he won't be posting on this thread anymore.

In talking with 2 Christian friends this afternoon, both of them strongly suggested that the truth in Scripture should be continued to be proclaimed on this thread.

Still would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[Wallet]

Expiated: Do you have any thoughts on what to do about the trolls on this thread? I can't read their stuff without cringing and feeling like it needs to be answered, so I generally do. However, engaging with them is not productive.

I can't be like you and put people on ignore. I could leave the thread and then I won't know what they are saying and it won't bother me. Or I could keep posting Bible verses after their trolling comments, but since you run the thread, I'd like to know what you think before making a decision.

All Christian’s are repulsed when God, His Name, His nature are attacked. It’s natural to want to set the record straight, but I would say study Jesus and his actions regarding those who persecuted Him. God is more than, beyond capable of defending Himself, if it was ever needed (hard to even conceive that narrative, man shakes his fist in total ignorance) It’s God’s mercy that the world needs but refuses to accept.

The World hasn’t changed, nor has it’s hatred of Christ - and by association His Church.

You want to spread the “Word”, thumbs up! Who knows who will read it, how it will affect or change lives, when the Church is brought together, it will be fascinating to meet those unknown whose lives are connected to ours.

For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55:10-11 KJV.

Paul writing to a young Timothy gave this advice;

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Tim 2:22-26 KJV.

Regards,

 

[stu]

Responding to Stu's response to Expiated:

In defense of God...not necessarily Expiated:

I am not going to enter into a discussion with you on each of your arguments

No problem. I can see why you would concede that way when Expatiated just demonstrated himself how God is basically just a proxy name for the universe. All powerful, existing everywhere etc.

stu's wager:
Why take the risk of following any religion when it’s likely that any ‘real’ god if there were one, is watching us and will raise up only those of us who have correctly determined that all earthly religions are fake.

 

[stu]

The World hasn’t changed, nor has it’s hatred of Christ - and by association His Church.

To question religious belief is hatred? Really?

"Religious apologists complain bitterly that atheists and secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn't argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we're doing is, we're presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain."
-- A.C. Grayling