The Government Is Doing Everything Wrong to End the Recession

Quote from piezoe:

It seems most would agree with you, the preset economy is propped up with government spending. There is not real growth, it is due to the government leveraging up as the private sector leveraged down. Even Paulson, Bernanke, and Geithner would, I think, agree. But they might say they chose the lesser of two evils. What would have happened had the economy not been propped up? Hoover did nothing during the great depression, as he believed things would return to normal on there own. We had breadlines, and deflation, and banks failures. We still have some banks failing, but now there is the FDIC. We don't have many breadlines, and there is no deflation in the economy overall.

I don't have any answers, just questions. But I have a strong belief that had the Gramm Leach Bliley act not been passed, and had Greenspan not ignored the many warnings he got regarding the mortgage industry, and had the SEC not rubber stamped everything the investment banks wanted to do, including leveraging up to 30 to 1, this entire mess might have been avoided.
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I agree except your point on deflation. We have deflation everywhere, housing, cars, etc. Without the stimulus we would have a real economy. Higher unemployment, lower housing prices, and higher crime. And when the Dems get routed next month you with see all of it.

There has been no recovery. Just forestalling the inevitable.

The US has a history of telling the truth 30 years later. I think we will find out 30 years from now the US and many other G-8's were insolvent at this time, but there was an agreement to keep the wheels greased while they tried to figure it out.
 
Quote from dandxg:

I agree except your point on deflation. We have deflation everywhere, housing, cars, etc. Without the stimulus we would have a real economy. Higher unemployment, lower housing prices, and higher crime. And when the Dems get routed next month you with see all of it.

There has been no recovery. Just forestalling the inevitable.

The US has a history of telling the truth 30 years later. I think we will find out 30 years from now the US and many other G-8's were insolvent at this time, but there was an agreement to keep the wheels greased while they tried to figure it out.
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Of course there is some deflation in segments of the economy, however even the official figures show low inflation overall. I put more stock in the former way of computing inflation (see shadowstats.com) which takes food and energy into consideration. Those numbers show significant inflation in the overall economy.

Your point about the truth coming out much later is well taken.
 
Hello piezoe -I don't get the inflation argument.
I can see that it is down the road but I'm not sure how far.
I know that my energy bills have gone up, and so have my taxes, but apart from that I cannot see another single thing that costs more.
I pay half the price I did for food two years ago. Cars are a lot cheaper, as are white goods, and if you're lucky, houses are half price.
Fuck the shadowstats and all the other websites, I go by what I pay and what I experience. I live in IL, and if you don't pay half of what you did for most things a couple of years back, then you are being taken for a ride.
Can you make me take this inflation argument seriously?
 
Quote from GuyFawkes:

Hello piezoe -I don't get the inflation argument.
I can see that it is down the road but I'm not sure how far.
I know that my energy bills have gone up, and so have my taxes, but apart from that I cannot see another single thing that costs more.
I pay half the price I did for food two years ago. Cars are a lot cheaper, as are white goods, and if you're lucky, houses are half price.
Fuck the shadowstats and all the other websites, I go by what I pay and what I experience. I live in IL, and if you don't pay half of what you did for most things a couple of years back, then you are being taken for a ride.
Can you make me take this inflation argument seriously?
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I'm just going with the U.S. government official figure or the Shadowstats figure, they both show + inflation in the overall economy. Your results may differ. What surprises me is your food bill! Ag products and food are one of the areas where inflation is greatest. Maybe I should move to Illinois, if you are experiencing 50% deflation there.!!! That's impressive, maybe you should notify Big Ben of that. I don't think he knows.

P.S. FWIW the bureau of labor statistics is showing 2% current inflation annualized. This isn't much, but it is not deflation!
 
Quote from piezoe:

I'm just going with the U.S. government official figure or the Shadowstats figure, they both show + inflation in the overall economy. Your results may differ. What surprises me is your food bill! Ag products and food are one of the areas where inflation is greatest. Maybe I should move to Illinois, if you are experiencing 50% deflation there.!!! That's impressive, maybe you should notify Big Ben of that. I don't think he knows.

P.S. FWIW the bureau of labor statistics is showing 2% current inflation annualized. This isn't much, but it is not deflation!
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See below. The GDP Price Deflator takes account not of some Platonic ideal of what people buy, but of what people actually buy in real life to maintain their standard of living. It's lower now than it has been since 1950. No, it's not yet deflation, but it's close enough. (Click on the pic to get to the source)

 
Good chart.

Do some homework fella's.

Same pattern in 1929-1932 is happening.

Housing bust, market crash,
Gov Intervention.
Witch is dead article, declaring "Recession" over.
Market rallies.
False hope fades.
The depression Follows until world war 2.

Sorry folks. I'm in the Depression Camp. It will get far worse before it gets better.
 
Agree it gets worse...but not like in depression. This will be a currency event. The dollar will be history.

How we emerge from it depends on education of the masses as to the cause.

Today with the internet and forums like this one we have a real hope of bringing the freedom philosophy out of the dustbin and reestablishing true capitalism so we dont have to lose 20 years before prosperity returns.
 
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