The Good Old Days - what were they like?
- Thread starter leapfrog
- Start date
Quote from Brandonf:
We used to have to get up at 4am, then we had to go barefoot, through the snow and over HUGE ASS HILLS in the dark leading our little brothers and sisters to the chop shop, er brokerage firm
PS, once got there we had to write all of our orders in with Pencils (not mechanical ones) and we had to raise our hands and wait for someone to call on us before we could do it.
They were excellent for very short-term trading. You would have many crazy days where the market would go one way for ages with hardly a meaningful retracement. You could just keep buying all the way up or sell all the way down until the trend changed, and make a fortune. Trading the open the next day after a huge move was often a fantastic experience - the market would jiggle once or twice, and then ramp a hundred nasdaq points in minutes.
There were days when the daily range was over 15% in the nas. Imagine having that now! I remember catching over 250 nasdaq points on the Monday after that crash week in April 2000 - it then went up another couple hundred points the same day. There was that other day where it crashed 500 points in a couple of hours, then rallied back to nearly unchanged on the close. And the Fed's surprise rate cut where the nas rallied 200 points in a few seconds.
If you had good execution software then those days were like taking candy from a baby. Some days you would risk 5 ticks and end up making 50 or 100 before you got stopped out. If I had known then what I know now, I would have made probably 5 times as much as I did.
It was also very draining mentally, due to the non-stop action. The lunchtime "dead zone" then was equivalent to a monster day today. You would always have to go pee before the open, because otherwise you might need to go right in the middle of a massive move which could occur any time. Everyone got food delivered, because you couldn't afford to miss even 10 mins by going out for lunch. Each friday after the close I would just fall straight asleep.
Sadly I don't think we'll see days like that for a very long time. It was a one off event that was unique to the bubble, but most traders didn't appreciate it at the time. IMO you will have to trade other markets (maybe commodities) to see insane action like that again.
Ah, it gives me a warm feeling just talking about it. I think I'll go get myself a beer and look at those nasdaq charts again
There were days when the daily range was over 15% in the nas. Imagine having that now! I remember catching over 250 nasdaq points on the Monday after that crash week in April 2000 - it then went up another couple hundred points the same day. There was that other day where it crashed 500 points in a couple of hours, then rallied back to nearly unchanged on the close. And the Fed's surprise rate cut where the nas rallied 200 points in a few seconds.
If you had good execution software then those days were like taking candy from a baby. Some days you would risk 5 ticks and end up making 50 or 100 before you got stopped out. If I had known then what I know now, I would have made probably 5 times as much as I did.
It was also very draining mentally, due to the non-stop action. The lunchtime "dead zone" then was equivalent to a monster day today. You would always have to go pee before the open, because otherwise you might need to go right in the middle of a massive move which could occur any time. Everyone got food delivered, because you couldn't afford to miss even 10 mins by going out for lunch. Each friday after the close I would just fall straight asleep.
Sadly I don't think we'll see days like that for a very long time. It was a one off event that was unique to the bubble, but most traders didn't appreciate it at the time. IMO you will have to trade other markets (maybe commodities) to see insane action like that again.
Ah, it gives me a warm feeling just talking about it. I think I'll go get myself a beer and look at those nasdaq charts again
Thanks all who responded to this thread. It is good to have your perspective. Probably won't see that again but it is good to know that such things can happen and to be prepared for them if they do. In the meantime it's continuing to work for a living and trying to keep up a few ES points average per day. My best guess right now is to carefully look at other commodities, one at a time, probably with longer time frames than daytrading the ES, and try to pick which markets offer the best opportunities at any given economic point in the cycle.
Jimmy Rogers and a bunch of others are all shouting "buy commodities" over the next 10 years and we have seen pretty impressive run ups in Cotton, Cattle, Gold, Copper, etc. the last few weeks/months. Seems like there are opportunities there but I don't understand how to trade them other than on a swing trade basis and/or fundamentals. But this means needing a decent capital base to stomach the swings (wide stops).
Anyway, food for thought. - rcm.
Jimmy Rogers and a bunch of others are all shouting "buy commodities" over the next 10 years and we have seen pretty impressive run ups in Cotton, Cattle, Gold, Copper, etc. the last few weeks/months. Seems like there are opportunities there but I don't understand how to trade them other than on a swing trade basis and/or fundamentals. But this means needing a decent capital base to stomach the swings (wide stops).
Anyway, food for thought. - rcm.
The "good ol' days" are certainly a matter of opinion. Our good ol days were in the 70's and 80's when there was a tremendous edge on the trading floors around the Country. The next big edge came in the early 90's when "off - floor" trading of equities "showed us the money"....The bubble of the late nineties was just more of the same....
And now, we are back to the same markets that we enjoyed years ago...and, yet, some think that futures and options trading is all new....
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Adapt or die to the markets, and learn from the past. (I know that sounds rather trite, but nonetheless, valuable words to live by).
Don
I entered the market in '89 on the tail end of the ltd. partnerships, and the beginning of the biotech frenzy. I started in daytrading in 1995. Naz100's had average spreads, levels and ticks of 1/4. Stocks like USRX (before bot by COMS) BLDPF and IOMG (Iomega) had spreads of 1.25 - 2.00, and were good for 5 pt. gaps and 10 pt. ranges. Before ECNs were ECNs, I had a dialdown to and INCA inputter, and I was able to arb between INCA and L2. On major reversals, pivots and Fed rate announcements, INCA and INCX would bid 20K 1/2 above the offer to cover shorts. I would hit the INCA bid and lift the L2 offer and make a 1/2 in seconds. ISLD was only available to Broadway traders, so INCA was it. Selectnet was also a great tool also. I'd offer the ask, and get lifted by GSCO while he was high bid. That was always good for another 2 ticks or 1/2. MMs would hit and lift on SNET before posting on L2. I would have 100 a share bid and offer 2 ticks outside the best prices. Getting hit and lifted through by the axes was always a big confirm that we were moving. Combine that with TA and you had the market by the grapes. That all happened way before the Internet rockets lit up.
The downsides were SOES 5-min rule for us and 20-sec rule for MMs. Liquidity for panic traders was tiny. Nasdaq was proposing a system called Naqcess, I called it "No Access". The rule would increase the 20-sec rule to 45 secs. That would have crushed the SOES traders market.
Most of the traders that lived before the Internet boom blew themselves up because they couldn't adapt. It's always nice to muse over the good ole days, but more important to learn from the past, accept the present and prepare to survive the future.
The downsides were SOES 5-min rule for us and 20-sec rule for MMs. Liquidity for panic traders was tiny. Nasdaq was proposing a system called Naqcess, I called it "No Access". The rule would increase the 20-sec rule to 45 secs. That would have crushed the SOES traders market.
Most of the traders that lived before the Internet boom blew themselves up because they couldn't adapt. It's always nice to muse over the good ole days, but more important to learn from the past, accept the present and prepare to survive the future.
the good old "bubble" days started in spring 98. Futures were fun on the way down in 2001 .
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=KTEL.OB&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Ramoutar makes a valid point that merits a repost. The markets can, do and will change - be prepared to change with them or stop trading. What will be obvious in hindsight may be very difficult to discern as it occurs. Which is another reason to hang out at ET, maybe you'll find a piece or two of how the market is changing.
Quote from TGregg:
Ramoutar makes a valid point that merits a repost. The markets can, do and will change - be prepared to change with them or stop trading. What will be obvious in hindsight may be very difficult to discern as it occurs. Which is another reason to hang out at ET, maybe you'll find a piece or two of how the market is changing.
Right on!