The Geniousness of Paul Tudor Jones
- Thread starter etfarb
- Start date
Quote from Ash1972:
Ah, now I understand. You want investors who are rich dummies. That makes sense
He thinks that a 500MM fund is a minnow that has to take on more than prudent sized risks whereas a 5 BN whale fund doesn't have to.
from what I understand PTJs father was a leading cotton merchant who used to be friends with Ellis tullis probably gave him some insider info that's why Ellis traded so boldly.
PTJ performance in the last decade is really nothing spectacular I think he now focuses on low volatility of returns.
PTJ performance in the last decade is really nothing spectacular I think he now focuses on low volatility of returns.
Quote from Ash1972:
Ah, now I understand. You want investors who are rich dummies. That makes sense
It's poor form to talk about things that you know absolutely nothing about and refuse to learn. I tried to explain to you that hedge funds are for the ultra wealthy to diverisfy their holdings in a variety of risk environments. You are very ignorant and the exact reason the SEC is trying to clamp down on funds-- congratulations well done.
surf
Thanks for the info, interesting. So he was a rich kid to start out with----- fortunately, insider info is 100% legit and legal in commodites.
surf
Business life [edit]
Jones was born in Memphis, Tennessee. He graduated from Presbyterian Day School, an all-boys elementary school before attending Memphis University School for high school. Jones then went on to University of Virginia, earning an undergraduate degree in economics in 1976 as well as a welterweight boxing championship.[6]
In 1976, he started working on the trading floors as a clerk and then became a broker for E.F. Hutton. In 1980, he went strictly on his own for two and a half profitable years, before he "really got bored." He then applied to Harvard Business School, was accepted, and packed to go when the idea occurred to him that: "this is crazy, because for what I'm doing here, they're not going to teach me anything. This skill set is not something that they teach in business school." [7]
Jones' cousin William Dunavant Jr., whose Dunavant Enterprises is one of the world's largest cotton merchants, advised Jones to go down to New Orleans to talk with commodity broker Eli Tullis, who hired and then mentored him in trading cotton futures at the New York Cotton Exchange. Jones later said:
"He [Eli Tullis] was the toughest son of a bitch I ever knew. He taught me that trading is very competitive and you have to be able to handle getting your butt kicked. No matter how you cut it, there are enormous emotional ups and downs involved."[8]
In 1980 Jones founded Tudor Investment Corporation,[9] which is today a leading asset management firm headquartered in Greenwich, Connecticut. The Tudor Group, which consists of Tudor Investment Corporation and its affiliates, is involved in active trading, investing and research in the global equity, venture capital, debt, currency, and commodity markets.[citation needed]
One of Jones' earliest and major successes was predicting Black Monday in 1987, tripling his money during the event due to large short positions.[10]
Mr. Jones previously served as a director of the Futures Industry Association and was instrumental in the creation and development of an education-arm for the associationâthe then Futures Industry Institute, a research institute later renamed the Institute for Financial Markets based in Washington D.C. Mr. Jones was also an advocate for the design and implementation of the first ethics training course that became the standard for exchange membership on all futures exchanges in the United States.[11]
Jones was born in Memphis, Tennessee. He graduated from Presbyterian Day School, an all-boys elementary school before attending Memphis University School for high school. Jones then went on to University of Virginia, earning an undergraduate degree in economics in 1976 as well as a welterweight boxing championship.[6]
In 1976, he started working on the trading floors as a clerk and then became a broker for E.F. Hutton. In 1980, he went strictly on his own for two and a half profitable years, before he "really got bored." He then applied to Harvard Business School, was accepted, and packed to go when the idea occurred to him that: "this is crazy, because for what I'm doing here, they're not going to teach me anything. This skill set is not something that they teach in business school." [7]
Jones' cousin William Dunavant Jr., whose Dunavant Enterprises is one of the world's largest cotton merchants, advised Jones to go down to New Orleans to talk with commodity broker Eli Tullis, who hired and then mentored him in trading cotton futures at the New York Cotton Exchange. Jones later said:
"He [Eli Tullis] was the toughest son of a bitch I ever knew. He taught me that trading is very competitive and you have to be able to handle getting your butt kicked. No matter how you cut it, there are enormous emotional ups and downs involved."[8]
In 1980 Jones founded Tudor Investment Corporation,[9] which is today a leading asset management firm headquartered in Greenwich, Connecticut. The Tudor Group, which consists of Tudor Investment Corporation and its affiliates, is involved in active trading, investing and research in the global equity, venture capital, debt, currency, and commodity markets.[citation needed]
One of Jones' earliest and major successes was predicting Black Monday in 1987, tripling his money during the event due to large short positions.[10]
Mr. Jones previously served as a director of the Futures Industry Association and was instrumental in the creation and development of an education-arm for the associationâthe then Futures Industry Institute, a research institute later renamed the Institute for Financial Markets based in Washington D.C. Mr. Jones was also an advocate for the design and implementation of the first ethics training course that became the standard for exchange membership on all futures exchanges in the United States.[11]
Trading style and beliefs [edit]
As reported in Market Wizards, Jones futures trading style and beliefs are summarized as follows:[14]
Contrarian attempt to buy and sell turning points. Keeps trying the single trade idea until he changes his mind, fundamentally. Otherwise, he keeps cutting his position size down. Then he trades the smallest amount when his trading is at its worst.
Considers himself as a premier market opportunist. When he develops an idea, he pursues it from a very-low-risk standpoint until he has been proven wrong repeatedly, or until he changes his viewpoint.
Swing trader, the best money is made at the market turns. Has missed a lot of meat in the middle, but catches a lot of tops and bottoms.
Spends his day making himself happy and relaxed. Gets out if a losing position is making him uncomfortable. Nothingâs better than a fresh start. Key is to play great defense, not great offense.
Never average losers. Decreases his trading size when he is doing poorly, increase when he is trading well.
He has mental stops. If it hits that number, he is out no matter what. He uses not only price stops, but time stops.
Monitors the whole portfolio equity (risk) in realtime.
He believes prices move first and fundamentals come second.
He doesnât care about mistakes made 3 seconds ago, but what he is going to do from the next moment on.
Don't be a hero. Don't have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don't ever feel that you are very good. The second you do, you are dead.
As reported in Market Wizards, Jones futures trading style and beliefs are summarized as follows:[14]
Contrarian attempt to buy and sell turning points. Keeps trying the single trade idea until he changes his mind, fundamentally. Otherwise, he keeps cutting his position size down. Then he trades the smallest amount when his trading is at its worst.
Considers himself as a premier market opportunist. When he develops an idea, he pursues it from a very-low-risk standpoint until he has been proven wrong repeatedly, or until he changes his viewpoint.
Swing trader, the best money is made at the market turns. Has missed a lot of meat in the middle, but catches a lot of tops and bottoms.
Spends his day making himself happy and relaxed. Gets out if a losing position is making him uncomfortable. Nothingâs better than a fresh start. Key is to play great defense, not great offense.
Never average losers. Decreases his trading size when he is doing poorly, increase when he is trading well.
He has mental stops. If it hits that number, he is out no matter what. He uses not only price stops, but time stops.
Monitors the whole portfolio equity (risk) in realtime.
He believes prices move first and fundamentals come second.
He doesnât care about mistakes made 3 seconds ago, but what he is going to do from the next moment on.
Don't be a hero. Don't have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don't ever feel that you are very good. The second you do, you are dead.
I hear ya, two types, one owns a business, he is already at high risk, no need for a hedge fund, the other has a high income, he's already diversified in stocks and bonds, he has a need for a hedge fund
in fact, by diversifying into a high risk hedge fund, he is actually diversifying his total risk
less in just the stock market or bonds
and he wants a big swing, up or down
in fact, by diversifying into a high risk hedge fund, he is actually diversifying his total risk
less in just the stock market or bonds
and he wants a big swing, up or down
and in some cases, even if you own your own business, it may have matured to the point where it no longer makes sense to reinvest any more of your own personal money back into it. And then, you are a good candidate for a hedge fund
and you want that hedge fund taking the kind of risks you took building up your business