The Future Of America

[poyayan]

Quote from gnome:

And they will again.. BY RAISING TAXES... any dumbf*ck can do that.

One day, THEY WILL "TAKE IT ALL"... And no matter how hard you work, no matter what you accomplish... you will NEVER HAVE ANYTHING...then for what will you cheer?

Yes, I HATE raising tax, but passing my credit card debt to my children is not responsible.

I LOVE cutting tax, but that has to come with balance budget.

As much as you said everyone can raise tax and balance the budget. Anyone also can cut tax and throw the deficit under a bus.

The hard part is cut tax and balance the budget by cut spending. CUT spending -- that's the part no party did well.

 

[IanMacQuaide]

I agree with gnome.
One day our government will surely take it all.
100% taxation.
We'll get gas chits, and be told where to live, what we can eat, who we can associate with, and what we can read.
But at this point, I believe either party is capable of this.

 

[gnome]

Quote from Jasonn:

I am sorry gnome but you are missing the big picture here

YOU ARE a wealthy man worrying about your mills

but have you ever wondered what will 90% of us piss poor fucks do

if you are worried......the rest of us should be screaming as we are looking at event horizon of oblivion

oh right I forgot........most of us are too dumb to notice

I don't think I'm missing the big picture at all. When you accept and vote for the Socialistic platform, you settle for a mediocre life.. one devoid of opportunity and enjoyment of the fruits of personal accomplishment.

America USED to be, "Government, get off of my back!... Get the HELL out of my way and let me accomplish"... now it's ever more, "Wah, Wah, Wah... somebody's got more than I, so gimme, gimme, gimme". Any Gummint is just fine with the Socialist acceptance... let's them have exactly what they want and the sheeple remain docile.

A significant chunk of the American middle class has been given over to Asia... many of those whose jobs were outsourced have had to accept lesser jobs and a lower standard of living.

Gummint keeps spending more and more... and growing ever bigger.

Have you noticed?... When we get our monthly employment numbers, the private sector is shrinking while the Gummint jobs increase?

Gummint PRODUCES NOTHING! We can't ALL WORK FOR THE GUMMINT. Somebody has to produce to support the Gummint.

We're heading down the same path as the former Soviet Union... in 40 years or so, the Gummint will be MUCH MUCH larger, the private sector will be much smaller, and most of us will have to queue up for our ration of poatoes and toilet paper. What American with half a brain and a pair wants that??

 

[poyayan]

Quote from gnome:

I don't think I'm missing the big picture at all. When you accept and vote for the Socialistic platform, you settle for a mediocre life.. one devoid of opportunity and enjoyment of the fruits of personal accomplishment.

America USED to be, "Government, get off of my back!... Get the HELL out of my way and let me accomplish"... now it's ever more, "Wah, Wah, Wah... somebody's got more than I, so gimme, gimme, gimme". Any Gummint is just fine with the Socialist acceptance... let's them have exactly what they want and the sheeple remain docile.

A significant chunk of the American middle class has been given over to Asia... many of those whose jobs were outsourced have had to accept lesser jobs and a lower standard of living.

Gummint keeps spending more and more... and growing ever bigger.

Have you noticed?... When we get our monthly employment numbers, the private sector is shrinking while the Gummint jobs increase?

Gummint PRODUCES NOTHING! We can't ALL WORK FOR THE GUMMINT. Somebody has to produce to support the Gummint.

We're heading down the same path as the former Soviet Union... in 40 years or so, the Gummint will be MUCH MUCH larger, the private sector will be much smaller, and most of us will have to queue up for our ration of poatoes and toilet paper. What American with half a brain and a pair wants that??

Yes, it seems that for all democratic societies, the trend is to raid the cookie jar since everyone is doing it ANYWAY. (Rich & Poor)

Why? Simple! You get votes by spending and lose them by cutting. Unless hands are forced, no one want to make unpopular decisions.

However, somewhere in the middle of it, you can spend and not get votes. Look at medicare. How much government spend on it and how much you are really getting? All lost in the middle.

Republican used to stand for small government but no more.

Outsourcing is not a policy. It is a reality of not being competitive. We can say it is cheap labor, but you can also spin it the other way which is higher productivity elsewhere.

By the way, able to swipe your credit card is not a competitive edge.

Asking people not to outsource is like asking you not to invest in US only.

and guess what, money flow like water, it always flow down. You can put up barrier but someone is going to pay for that difference.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from LEAPup:

I'm a Libertarian, and thus do not want big government as it doesn't work. NOR is it what our founding Fathers meant it to be.

This used to be a free Country, but is no more. I love America, and am saddened by what it has come to vs. what I knew it as when I was a kid.

With an Obama in the White House, I can't imagine how many decades it will take to "un do" what he will do.

These are scary times, no question.

I am a rather libertarian leaning person myself, but i not sure that libertarian ideals are actually implementable in the real world. It seems that libertarian government, to work, requires nearly perfect people. That's where i think there would be a real problem if we were to try and move totally toward a libertarian society. I'm willing to give it a try, but i just don't think the results will be as expected. At any rate it would be very difficult to reverse the present course suddenly. It needs to be done in stages. I don't share the fear of Obama that you have. He is very intelligent, and that is a giant step in the right direction. Think of him as the anti-Bush, and i think you will realize that his administration can at least partly reverse the damage done to our liberties during the last disastrous 8 years of unbridled government growth and intrusion into our lives.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from poyayan:


At the minimum, they really did stop increasing the national deficit at one point.

Uhm, no they did not. Further research into these claims shows that it was just statistical engineering.

Try not believing everything the government & media says and using your own critical thinking skills. If you have any left.

 

[Humpy]

I think the problem should be looked at in 2 sections. One group of people are reasonably law abiding decent folk who don't do much worse than a speeding ticket or two, but the other is lawless "don't give a fuck about you" band of criminals, anarchists etc.
For the former they should be trusted and do much as they like with lots of encouragement to make the right decisions BUT an iron fist is needed on the latter who take what they can from anyone weaker. The sort of crooks that commit crimes go to prison, get let out and commit more crimes need a strong hand. The decent people of Mexico felt the urgent need to take to the streets last weekend - crime is so bad ! No more en suite bathrooms and colour telly in prison Oh no - just therapy until they are cured or killed imho

 

[dagobaz]

This is just cyclical behavior. all societies oscillate between two extremes: strong central authority / weak nobles; weak central authority / strong nobles.

Currently, this polity is progressing towards strong central authority. Soon, it will collapse, and the local nobles will carve out their fiefs.

Anyone who believes that the nobles are not behind the government being used as an all-powerful tool to bludgeon the enemies of the nobles is clueless.

 

[RhinoGG]

Quote from dagobaz:

This is just cyclical behavior. all societies oscillate between two extremes: strong central authority / weak nobles; weak central authority / strong nobles.

Currently, this polity is progressing towards strong central authority. Soon, it will collapse, and the local nobles will carve out their fiefs.

Anyone who believes that the nobles are not behind the government being used as an all-powerful tool to bludgeon the enemies of the nobles is clueless.

Oh, won't you please clue us in?

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from piezoe:

I am a rather libertarian leaning person myself, but i not sure that libertarian ideals are actually implementable in the real world. It seems that libertarian government, to work, requires nearly perfect people. That's where i think there would be a real problem if we were to try and move totally toward a libertarian society. I'm willing to give it a try, but i just don't think the results will be as expected. At any rate it would be very difficult to reverse the present course suddenly. It needs to be done in stages. I don't share the fear of Obama that you have. He is very intelligent, and that is a giant step in the right direction. Think of him as the anti-Bush, and i think you will realize that his administration can at least partly reverse the damage done to our liberties during the last disastrous 8 years of unbridled government growth and intrusion into our lives.

The problem is not really the people - it's the trust-model that you attribute to trusting the judgement of ordinary people or strangers.

If you have seen some of my posts about e-democracy and the transition from today's open democracy into an e-democracy using representative direct democracy - you would see that it is possible to move the trust of people honouring, caring for and executing the democratic model that we all agree on can easily be transferred to a technological platform open for audit, verification, transparency and traceability so that you can easily trust the execution of the model.

So, it's essentially the trust-model for society that needs attention - not really that people need to become improved versions of themselves.


As the deficiencies of any type of society/rule etc. develops - society is challenged because it is dynamic, and people adapt to whatever rule there is. In case of open democracy - we have increasingly more politicians, increasing government, more bureaucracy, more judicial processes, increasingly complicated legislation to counter the flaws, more punitive reaction and ultimately less freedom with an over-complicated society. Then a change comes after the patience and trust is eroded away. One can call this evolution in waves or cyclical trends - but it happens and has done so throughout history of humankind.