The First Amendment as we know it today didn’t exist until the ’60s

[jem]

unreal. pre-armageddon type stuff is spinning out of control again.
we need some real leadership.

how come it seems we are always on the wrong side of this since Bush Sr.

Jem, did you see the front page of Bloomberg today? If not, take a look.

 

[Ricter]

unreal. pre-armageddon type stuff is spinning out of control again.
we need some real leadership.

how come it seems we are always on the wrong side of this since Bush Sr.

Spying isn't new.

 

[dbphoenix]

To the ignorant, everything is perpetually new.

 

[piezoe]

Spying isn't new.

The scope and pervasive nature may be unprecedented, though from watching old movies one gets the idea that international spying was rampant during the world wars and the cold war -- I don't trust movies to give me historical accuracy. Anyone who would want access to my hard drives would be wasting time, but still I object to indiscriminate dragnets. If one wants privacy these days one is forced to disconnect from the net. Very difficult if you want to be a part of the current century. The question we should all be asking is: "Is this necessary", and if it is, how is it decided who's firmware gets "tweaked".

 

[Scataphagos]

Have you read "The Liberty Amendments" by Mark Levin? If not, give it a read, followed by "Liberty and Tyranny", and "Ameritopia", though not necessarily in any particular order. It would be interesting to see if you still feel the way you do after you read them. I'll get you started...if you're interested.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/1451606273/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3484774537&ref=pd_sl_4jhmgsctx8_p

Unlikely any of Levin's reform suggestions would ever take place.

Government (especially Federal) lies, cheats, steals and worse to acquire power and control... has zero intention of ever giving any of it up.

The only solution.... armed revolution when the hoi polloi have "had enough". Probably won't see that in the next 30 years. May never see it. More likely we turn into a big Cuba first.

 

[piezoe]

unreal. pre-armageddon type stuff is spinning out of control again.
we need some real leadership.

how come it seems we are always on the wrong side of this since Bush Sr.

We're not always on the wrong side. We only choose that side when we think it will yield the greatest profit. In our capitalist psyche, the "wrong" side then becomes the "right" side.

There is really no telling what side we might choose if there is no money to be made either way.

 

[dbphoenix]

Government (especially Federal) lies, cheats, steals and worse to acquire power and control... has zero intention of ever giving any of it up.

Ditto business. Though conservatives make every effort to conceal it.

 

[heypa]

Everyone in a position of power at any level has an agenda even if it is only to stay in power. Most try to conceal .

 

[dbphoenix]

Everyone in a position of power at any level has an agenda even if it is only to stay in power. Most try to conceal .

Otherwise they'd have to give up all those speaking fees, private jets, limos, pensions, premium health insurance, tons of freebies . . .

 

[Ricter]

The scope and pervasive nature may be unprecedented, though from watching old movies one gets the idea that international spying was rampant during the world wars and the cold war -- I don't trust movies to give me historical accuracy. Anyone who would want access to my hard drives would be wasting time, but still I object to indiscriminate dragnets. If one wants privacy these days one is forced to disconnect from the net. Very difficult if you want to be a part of the current century. The question we should all be asking is: "Is this necessary", and if it is, how is it decided who's firmware gets "tweaked".

Technology improves. All historical instances of discovered spying were likely unprecedented at the time, too.

I don't disagree with the pertinent questions we should be asking.