The final collapse of the US dollar it is just around the corner

Quote from thriftybob:

You asked for detailed proof, and now are angry I provided it?

Her VERY FIRST CHECK was about equal to the TOTAL AMOUNT she put in.

How many more people collected similar sums in excess of their payments? What was the withholding percentage and cap back then? If the money had been SAVED and earned interest, they wouldn't big need increases now to cover the shortfalls.

People are living longer, I'll grant that is true, but to argue the system is solvent and then say it needs a 14% increase in tax rate is sort of silly.

And lastly, and most importantly, WHO is going to repay all those IOU's?
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I am totally exasperated. Are you just being this dense to annoy me or are you actually retarded. If you are retarded than I apologize for my lack of patience, but how can I possibly spell it out any more clearly than I already have? It is a 16% increase in the tax that is needed based on the 2009 report. In 2009, the rate was 12.4% but needs to be 14.4%. Now pay attention! Because (14.4 - 12.4)/ 12.4 = .16 , that is a 16% increase in the tax, AND because 14.4 - 12.4 = 2, that is 2 cents more tax per every dollar earned, AND because the tax is split equally between employer and employee that is a whopping 1 cent more for each dollar earned that the employer will have to pay and a whopping 1 cent more per dollar earned that the employee will need to pay. Now then, those are the figures for 2009 and 2010. The employee contribution was actually reduced a little in 2011.

Now it gets worse, much much worse for self employed people. They will have to pay the entire two cents more per dollar of additional tax all by themselves. Oh, woe is me!!!

It is the nature of shared risk, defined benefit plans that some will receive more than their total contributions plus interest, and others will receive less than their total contributions plus interest, depending on how long they live. GET IT! The risk of receiving less in benefits than your total contribution is the trade off for lower monthly contributions throughout your working years and a pension that you can not outlive, no matter how long you live.

Now, is it finally clear to you --no, I suppose not -- that every thing you thought you knew about Social Security is dead wrong and there is a concerted effort by Wall Street and the Republicans in congress to mis-characterize the system, lie about it, and weaken it however they can. Won't it be nice when your grandmother is on the street eating cat food!
 
As long as getting checks for worth less money is ok, any checks are great, huh?

My IQ is 135 and I know the difference between 2% and 12.4%, thank you very much.

I was self employed all my working years and paid both sides of the tax.

You never answered why there isn't enough money including IOU's to pay off those owed?

You never answered where the money will come from to pay off the IOU's, which are now up to how many TRILLIONS of dollars?

Is it that you are dense or unable to see you and everyone still working have been scammed? My grandmother and mother will be dead, and I and my children will be the ones eating mudpies.
 
You never answered why there isn't enough money including IOU's to pay off those owed?
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Only scum sucking threat to America, PROGRESSIVES, would try to justify the "it's only 1 cent per dollar" idea and not address where the fuck the money went in the first place.

These Libtards are about as sharp as bowling balls. All they can do is justify "Tax Increase" but can not explain why they "Spend" so much.

And the fact that they even smile when saying the "Self Employed" person will pay 2 cents more per dollar as it isn't shared by the employer is the tell tell sign that He/She is sucking the Tit of the Government, Academia or some Public Corporation. In other words, about as productive as a three legged, helmet wearing fool.

Gov Brown of Cali stated that this country has not been so polarized since the Civil War. I say, the pressure is building and this Progressives better pull their head outa their asses fast. Even thought main stream press say's very little, the Demorats are about to crawl under a rock for the next century.

Key Democratic/Progressive scumbags are reversing their positions on Health Care and other issues fast, as their "re-election" is haunting them in a year.

Do not be fooled by the Main Stream Press. Progressives scum are loosing power fast in most states. They may not be forced out of all states, but they will be forced out of many.
 
Quote from thriftybob:

As long as getting checks for worth less money is ok, any checks are great, huh?

My IQ is 135 and I know the difference between 2% and 12.4%, thank you very much.

I was self employed all my working years and paid both sides of the tax.

You never answered why there isn't enough money including IOU's to pay off those owed?

You never answered where the money will come from to pay off the IOU's, which are now up to how many TRILLIONS of dollars?

Is it that you are dense or unable to see you and everyone still working have been scammed? My grandmother and mother will be dead, and I and my children will be the ones eating mudpies.
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Finally you seem to be catching on. Thank god! The problem is not with Social Security which is the best government program in existence. The problem rests with a dis-functional government that is engaging in endless wars on borrowed money and refuses to recognize the root cause of out of control medical spending.

You are absolutely correct about one thing. There isn't enough money to pay back the Social Security Trust fund the money owed to it, just as there is not enough to pay back all of the other debt obligations of the federal government, without further borrowing. However, keep in mind that in this regard the securities held by the Trust Fund have equal standing with all other securities issued by the Treasury Department.

So now that you have a better grasp of the problem, and it is most definitely not social security that is a problem, you can make a start on discussing the matter intelligently. Congratulations.
 
Quote from piezoe:

Finally you seem to be catching on. Thank god! The problem is not with Social Security which is the best government program in existence. The problem rests with a dis-functional government that is engaging in endless wars on borrowed money and refuses to recognize the root cause of out of control medical spending.

You are absolutely correct about one thing. There isn't enough money to pay back the Social Security Trust fund the money owed to it, just as there is not enough to pay back all of the other debt obligations of the federal government, without further borrowing. However, keep in mind that in this regard the securities held by the Trust Fund have equal standing with all other securities issued by the Treasury Department.

So now that you have a better grasp of the problem, and it is most definitely not social security that is a problem, you can make a start on discussing the matter intelligently. Congratulations.
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And that, my friend is what a Ponzi scheme is. Promising people things that are not possible by collecting it from the next guy coming in. It all works fine till the next guy isn't there or can't/won't pay.

And yes, you can just make the money worthless instead to create the illusion of repayment.

Its very sad to see someone cheerleading it as honest.
 
April 10, 2011

SouthAmerica: Going back to the subject of this this thread - the final collapse of the US economy and the US dollar:


The sad reality is that the United States is collapsing just like the Soviet Union – the collapse is already underway, and it is reaching an advanced stage.

The special status of the US dollar being the main global reserve currency it has reached the end of the line – the international monetary system is in deep trouble, and everything it seems to be getting out of control.

It's no coincidence that this weekend, 400 economists and central bankers have assembled in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, to explore the way in which economic thinking needs to respond to the financial crisis, at a conference organized by the George Soros funded Institute of New Economic Thinking.

They are in Bretton Woods, because it is: “Panic time”....

Tonight I did watch on the History Channel a new program about “The Crumbling of America.”

If you have the chance of watching that program then you will realize that the United States is becoming at an alarming rate a 3rd world country. If you pay attention the signs are all around us.

The Crumbling of America – History Channel - April 9, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSPcIGGcIc

.
 
Quote from piezoe:

The problem is not with Social Security which is the best government program in existence.
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As Thriftybob pointed out, the SS is the biggest Ponzi ever by definition, and not just in the US but everywhere. It is set up to fail eventually.

As an added insult, the government has raided the extra money in the SS, so that doesn't exist anymore. But hey, they do have the printing press...
 
Quote from thriftybob:

And that, my friend is what a Ponzi scheme is. Promising people things that are not possible by collecting it from the next guy coming in. It all works fine till the next guy isn't there or can't/won't pay.

And yes, you can just make the money worthless instead to create the illusion of repayment.

Its very sad to see someone cheerleading it as honest.
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I take back every wonderful thing I've said about you. You're hopeless! :D
 
Quote from Pekelo:

As Thriftybob pointed out, the SS is the biggest Ponzi ever by definition, and not just in the US but everywhere. It is set up to fail eventually.

As an added insult, the government has raided the extra money in the SS, so that doesn't exist anymore. But hey, they do have the printing press...
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Pekelo, both of these statements by you are incorrect, and you, of all people, should know better.

The social security system in the U.S., as I know you realize, is a defined benefit pension plan with distributed risk and insurance features based on sound actuarial principles. Contribution rates must be adjusted from time to time, as in any similar plan, to allow for changing demographics. The U.S. system is on sound footing for the time being but needs minor adjustments to contribution rates to keep it sound into the foreseeable future. It is not a fraudulent investment scheme, i.e., Ponzi Scheme, and has, as you also know, produced a surplus of contributions over most of its existence. The surplus has been invested in securities issued by the Treasury Dept., and these securities have the same standing as U.S. Treasury bonds sold world wide. By law, money in the Trust fund may not be spent on anything but Social Security, but may be invested to produce additional income.

To the extent that inflation will result in less buying power paid back to the trust fund than was borrowed, the money "does not exist anymore" , as you say. However this is exactly the situation with all other bonds issued by the Treasury, and I haven't heard anyone describing the money used to buy U.S. Treasury bonds as "not existing anymore". The same situation affects all money subjected to inflation. The effect of projected inflation on future buying power is, in fact, one of the factors that actuaries may take into account.

What is clear, is that Wall Street wants to damage Social Security in what ever way they can, even if they have to lie to do it. And the persistence of their attack has began to stick with much of the public, yourself included it seems.

If you are philosophically opposed to the idea behind Social Security, I can respect that opinion, though I don't agree with it. However I do not respect arguments based on Wall Street nonsense, such as "Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme" or "the money in the trust fund has been spent and no longer exits." Actually, the money has been invested in securities of the United States Treasury, and unless the Treasury defaults on its debt obligations, these securities can be converted to cash!

All of this information is available to you via government websites, if you care to avail yourself of it.

It is shocking the way mis-information Re Social Security has permeated the media and mindset of the average American, especially blue collar workers, it seems.
 
Quote from SouthAmerica:

April 10, 2011

SouthAmerica: Going back to the subject of this this thread - the final collapse of the US economy and the US dollar:


The sad reality is that the United States is collapsing just like the Soviet Union – the collapse is already underway, and it is reaching an advanced stage.

The special status of the US dollar being the main global reserve currency it has reached the end of the line – the international monetary system is in deep trouble, and everything it seems to be getting out of control.

It's no coincidence that this weekend, 400 economists and central bankers have assembled in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, to explore the way in which economic thinking needs to respond to the financial crisis, at a conference organized by the George Soros funded Institute of New Economic Thinking.

They are in Bretton Woods, because it is: “Panic time”....

Tonight I did watch on the History Channel a new program about “The Crumbling of America.”

If you have the chance of watching that program then you will realize that the United States is becoming at an alarming rate a 3rd world country. If you pay attention the signs are all around us.

The Crumbling of America – History Channel - April 9, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSPcIGGcIc

.
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Given human nature, what you write will probably prove correct, but the timing?
 
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