The ET Caucus

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from BSAM:

I don't think your answer was simple, brother Tao, just not thought out.
If you would have posted what I posted, I probably would have had the same initial thought as you did.
And, of course, big brother would definitely try to force compliance.

No, the revolution won't be so "simple" next time around.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from mrbill:

I am outraged at all excess spending. We have some solid areas that can be cut easily. Foreign Aid needs to be addressed, the war spending, but we need to stay strong, and don't need a bunch of unemployed military personnel to add to that problem. Cut all tax subsidies to big corps who are making over xxxx amount each year, they have proven they don't need any help. And, yes, stay the hell out of our SS.

Yet you cast a vote for more of the same.

And your "Cutting all tax subsidies" is remarkably similar to "close loopholes" which the left was so much against. Raise rates instead, was the response.

You call yourself a fiscal conservative, yet to my recollection, you haven't supported any ideas of fiscal conservative behavior on this forum. Maybe I'm missing your posts.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from mrbill:

If we all could listen to one another, without making quick judgement calls, we might just be able to work things out.

Anytime you (or your political extensions) come to me and say "I want more from you to pay more for what I have" you're going to get hostility.

Any time. That will never, ever change.

Remove that and then the tension begins to dissipate.

 

[mrbill]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

Yet you cast a vote for more of the same.

And your "Cutting all tax subsidies" is remarkably similar to "close loopholes" which the left was so much against. Raise rates instead, was the response.

You call yourself a fiscal conservative, yet to my recollection, you haven't supported any ideas of fiscal conservative behavior on this forum. Maybe I'm missing your posts.

Maybe you are, not sure of course. I just get tired of the same Ayn Rand mantra about the takers and the makers. Most Americans would prefer to work and do indeed pay taxes. We could do better with perhaps a VAT tax or the impending Federal Sales Tax IMO. But to simply scream about food stamps and EBT is just to embolden those who support social programs. I believe in Workfare, not Welfare, as most do I think. Why pay XOm $billions? Big AG? Even farmers making over $1million per year, they clearly don't need it.

Stay strong with our Military, but have a solid purchasing arrangements, stop paying our money for stupid stuff. It's not that hard. I could go on.

 

[mrbill]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

Anytime you (or your political extensions) come to me and say "I want more from you to pay more for what I have" you're going to get hostility.

Any time. That will never, ever change.

Remove that and then the tension begins to dissipate.

I've never asked, nor ever needed, to ask anyone for anything. Just FYI.

If you mean the plurality, then we, as Americans need to work together to come up with some good answers, and stop the politics.

 

[BSAM]

Quote from mrbill:

Maybe you are, not sure of course. I just get tired of the same Ayn Rand mantra about the takers and the makers. Most Americans would prefer to work and do indeed pay taxes. We could do better with perhaps a VAT tax or the impending Federal Sales Tax IMO. But to simply scream about food stamps and EBT is just to embolden those who support social programs. I believe in Workfare, not Welfare, as most do I think. Why pay XOm $billions? Big AG? Even farmers making over $1million per year, they clearly don't need it.

Stay strong with our Military, but have a solid purchasing arrangements, stop paying our money for stupid stuff. It's not that hard. I could go on.

Good post, brother mb.

(Brother Tao, don't pull his string too hard, this brother is showing good signs of progress.)

 

[tomdavis]

The political situation in the US now bears a strong resemblance to the most volatile parts of the world (e.g., the Middle East) where the conversation is dominated by extremists. Moderates are despised as traitors.

Extremists on both the left and the right control US political conversations and thereby control US politics. Until the conversation changes, nothing else will change either.

 

[denner]

Quote from tomdavis:

The political situation in the US now bears a strong resemblance to the most volatile parts of the world (e.g., the Middle East) where the conversation is dominated by extremists. Moderates are despised as traitors.

Extremists on both the left and the right control US political conversations and thereby control US politics. Until the conversation changes, nothing else will change either.

And I think it strengthens Logic Man's point..i.e. there is absolutely no possible way to resolve the "left vs right" compromise or whatever else we want to call it. The fallout from the bursting of the credit bubble and the growth of the social safety net is pitting the "have's" vs have not's" into an untenable situation.

Further, any of the lip service paid towards raising taxes, cutting entitlements doesn't even put a dent into the deficit spending. There is literally no way out. (absent fracturing into a divided country..and even that would be a logistical nightmare).

 

[BSAM]

Quote from denner:

And I think it strengthens Logic Man's point..i.e. there is absolutely no possible way to resolve the "left vs right" compromise or whatever else we want to call it. The fallout from the bursting of the credit bubble and the growth of the social safety net is pitting the "have's" vs have not's" into an untenable situation.

Further, any of the lip service paid towards raising taxes, cutting entitlements doesn't even put a dent into the deficit spending. There is literally no way out. (absent fracturing into a divided country..and even that would be a logistical nightmare).

Wait, brother Denner.
I got an idea.
We declare insolvency and print new money based on the gold standard.
It's gonna happen; why not now?

 

[tomdavis]

Quote from denner:

And I think it strengthens Logic Man's point..i.e. there is absolutely no possible way to resolve the "left vs right" compromise or whatever else we want to call it. The fallout from the bursting of the credit bubble and the growth of the social safety net is pitting the "have's" vs have not's" into an untenable situation.

Further, any of the lip service paid towards raising taxes, cutting entitlements doesn't even put a dent into the deficit spending. There is literally no way out. (absent fracturing into a divided country..and even that would be a logistical nightmare).

The only way out is to leave the country, which is what we're considering doing. My wife has maintained her Australian citizenship so the move would be fairly straightforward. The challenge is that we have two kids that are happy here and doing well in school. It would be difficult to move them now. On the other hand, it doesn't look like they have much of a future in the US. Maybe now is the time to move.