The difference between winners and losers

Quote from Steve Tvardek:

Just log off of this handle and log in under your "areyoukidding" one and you'll find out :D

I think that the Steve Osbourne and Steve Tvardek are the same person.
 
Quote from icarus618:

Making money in the market is a process of extraction that requires the following:

1. Knowledge

2. Skill

3. Experience

A "winner", to use the thread originator's term, is a person who has organized and built his mind with the three items to be at an operational level. Although there are various levels of being operational, it turns out that just a small degree of 1, 2 and 3 is sufficient to be operational itself. A "loser", again to use the originator's term, is someone who is unable to obtain 1, 2 and 3 in order to build his mind to go through the process of extracting from the market.

A person starting from a scratch place approaches the market with neither 1, 2 nor 3 in his basket. That does not automatically make him a "loser", of course, because a loser is a person who cannot obtain these items to build his mind, not a person who simply lacks them.

So how does a person starting from scratch obtain these items for his basket? Unfortunately, this is problematic because the person's basket is not empty to begin with. It is filled usually with items of folklore that a person has picked up as 1 while arriving at a point where he views the market as a place of opportunity for making money. Such a person may be worse off than those whose baskets are so filled with myths that the market cannot be seen as a place of opportunity at all but something to be feared and avoided.

What I am stating here is that most people never have a chance to be a "winner" for the simple fact that they are in the "loser" category before they get off the starting line. Once they get started, they go through 3 in the form of failure and losses and usually obtain more sophisticated myths which they take for deeper 1 and become proficient at doing things that they mistake for 2. In short, they start out fucked and fuck themselves up further as they go along all the while thinking they are acquiring 1, 2 and 3.

Trading is one of those things that if it can't be done right, it is best to not do it at all. A "winner" is someone who recognizes this and is also a person who decides not to pursue trading at all because he sees that a person cannot learn to do things right by believing in and doing things wrong. A "loser" is someone who doesn't know this.

The above is a great expression of the reality of learning to make high velocity money.

Lets lay it out for TheDr also. His belief system up to this point is based mostly on the risk situations he says he puts himself in all the time.

before it has been noted that going from scratch in trading to expert should be done in a series of steps to make sure it happens and to make sure it is fast and to make sure that you make money all along the way.

Use the following picutre to see how this process unfolds.

Go to your map drawer and pull out four maps.

Layer them up so the risk map is on the top and the 1, 2, and 3 maps are lined up underneath. The areas covered by each map is the market and its operations and operating points.

The risk map relates clearly and concisely to all the risk levels of where anyone can be trading in the market.

The longitudes and latitudes of the maps create cells which give you the places on the map of how the market is working.

As the maps stack up and the color coding of novice through expert shows on all levels, it appears clearly that a beginner can only trade the no risk part of the risk map.

By looking at the cells and reading the descriptions within each, the trader uses the knowledge, skills and experience he has to make the money velocity of that cells operating characteristic.

The above description is very different than the risk TheDr is noting. His risks are very different than this maps risks. TheDR does not recognize the contents of any of the maps and he states that the 1 map is not part of his ways.

He is always at the same risk level he states. He has an overall risk approach that is designed to get the kind of results that he feels he can achieve within the limitations he has assigned to himself. In some books this place is called being "stuck". He is stuck and he created this place he is in.

Why has he created this limitation for the money velocity his equity curve is stuck with?

Is he a winner or loser. Neither it turns out. He is just a trader who cannot be effective nor efficient in making money.

What makes a person effective and efficient? As said regarding 1, 2, and 3, it is a building process not yet begun by TheDr. He states why he is not going to build himself. It is not a necessity for him because he uses a strategy to stay out of the market or get out of the market when it is eating his capital.

The object of effectiveness and efficiency is to realize the potential that the market is offering. It is possible to notice that the market continually offers its potential to everyone. Here is a picture for you to always remember. Every time you look at the market someone is making money at that time. Your job is singular, be in the market and be making that money that is always offered.

You get there by building your knowledge, skills and experience to be able to operate successfully with every cell of the market. TheDr is one of the persons, who on occassion will be opposite you giving to you what the market offers at that time. He just stops giving it to you when he reaches his pain threshold and leaves the market.

Why is he stuck in the place he resides??
 
Quote from risktaker:


Of course, I'm not comparing joesixpack competing on the track. I'm talkin' 2 pro's.

Does that mean it's impossible to trade well with a six-pack at your side? If that's the case, I'm going to have to change my business plan.
 
It depends ...
Quote from BTStrader:

Does that mean it's impossible to trade well with a six-pack at your side? If that's the case, I'm going to have to change my business plan.
 

Attachments

Experience and knowledge have nothing to do with winning: many--if not most losing traders--know both fundamental and technical indicators; and losing traders also have years of experience.

The winners' trait is often called "talent", "motivation", or--as Tvardek puts it--"skill". That this trait can be precisely defined or quantified is dubious. Those telling losing traders that winning can be learned don't know winning themselves. Gurus' list is long: Wade Cook, Larry Williams, Ken Roberts just to name the most infamous.
 
This is an amazing :eek: statement! It'd be a waste to try arguing with it.
Quote from energytraderus:

Experience and knowledge have nothing to do with winning: many--if not most losing traders--know both fundamental and technical indicators; and losing traders also have years of experience.

The winners' trait is often called "talent", "motivation", or--as Tvardek puts it--"skill". That this trait can be precisely defined or quantified is dubious. Those telling losing traders that winning can be learned don't know winning themselves. Gurus' list is long: Wade Cook, Larry Williams, Ken Roberts just to name the most infamous.
 
if it hasnt been mentioned already..

1. humility
2. knowing what you dont know
3. caution


i trust the others have been mentioned so i wont repeat them.
 
Well, if you arent the same person, you sure make the same exact comments and post the same type of stuff. Its eerie :D

Quote from hairdresser:

I think that the Steve Osbourne and Steve Tvardek are the same person.
 
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