The Deniers told us COVID doesn't hurt Children

You fear mongers... just have no ability to comprehend probabilities and how they apply to real life.

Low risk healthy, sufficient vitamin D.. exercising... probably exposed in the past... you have almost zero risk of dying.

You have been hiding for a year... then you better get your boosters for life and keep hiding.




Many studies discussed in this Meta Study... Vitamin D insufficiency correlated with severe Covid...


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2020.1841090?journalCode=bfsn20&#


Discussion
The results of this study reveal that vitamin D deficiency can present an association with COVID-19 severity, especially in the elderly. This is explained by both lower exposure to sunlight and lower 7-dehydrocholesterol values in the skin, which compromises the cutaneous synthesis of 25(OH)D in the elderly (Adami et al. 2009). Moreover, ageing is accompanied by a greater occurrence of chronic diseases (Pimenta et al. 2015), considered a risk factor for COVID-19 severity (Jin et al. 2020), and which are commonly treated with anti-inflammatory, anti-hypertensive, and endocrine agents and with drugs that can also interfere in blood vitamin D levels (Grant et al. 2020).

Within this context, studies conducted in the United Kingdom, Italy and in China (Zhou et al. 2020; Hewitt et al. 2020) reveal high COVID-19 mortality rates in those older than 65, a group that is more susceptible to inadequate levels of vitamin D. In this sense, it is observed that patients with severe cases of COVID-19, characterized by respiratory difficulty, oxygen saturation at rest ≤93%, a partial pressure of arterial oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen ratio ≤300 mmHg, or complications of the disease, such as the need for mechanical ventilation, septic shock, or insufficiency of non-respiratory organs (Liu et al. 2020), are also those who tend to present inadequate blood vitamin D levels. One possible explanation is that 25(OH)D concentration is inversely associated with pro-inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6, an increase in C-reactive protein (CRP), an increased risk of SDRA, and cardiac insufficiency (Alipio 2020), conditions that relate to the severity of the case and to its unfavorable outcomes. One retrospective study conducted in the south of Asia reinforces this hypothesis, as it shows significantly lower vitamin D levels according to the severity of the disease, with a confirmed association for critical cases of COVID-19 and low blood 25(OH)D levels (Alipio 2020).
 
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userque said:
How does one go about getting natural immunity?
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I've asked these questions multiple times in the past year to these Natural Immunity folks.

There has not been one logical answer beyond saying protect the elderly and let it rip in the rest of the population. That was last year when we also warned about doing such will increase the chances of a mutation turning into a Variant of Concern.
  • Two of the current Variants of Concern had been birth in elderly patients.
Now we have Covid Delta Variant targeting younger people less than 50 and children...Natural Immunity is a flawed healthcare policy for a country like the United States that can not be implemented via the fact that 1/3 of the population does not know they have an underlying medical condition that can be exploited by Covid.
  • I believe countries like Japan may be able to do a Natural Herd Immunity policy without killing off millions of its population.
The best policy is to deal with the reality of the current situation. Let those that are vaccinated or want to wear a face mask...leave them alone.

Those that prefer to be Not Vaccinated...isolate them into refugee-like camps and let Covid Delta Variant rip through their population. Those that develop a severe Covid illness...can be attended by medical professionals that do not want to be vaccinated.

Those that survive their Covid illness can be released and live life with those that are vaccinated.

Oh wait...not the end of the story. We'll most likely get a new Variant of Concern and we'll have to repeat the process all over again.

P.S. I'm waiting for the first dating game TV show in which someone ask the other potential partner if he / she is fully vaccinated. :rolleyes:

wrbtrader
 
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jem said:
You fear mongers... just have no ability to comprehend probabilities and how the apply to real life.

Low risk healthy, sufficient vitamin D.. exercising... probably exposed in the past... you have almost zero risk of dying.

You have been hiding for a year... then you better get your boosters for life and keep hiding.




Many studies discussed in this Meta Study... Vitamin D insufficiency correlated with severe Covid...


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2020.1841090?journalCode=bfsn20&#


Discussion
The results of this study reveal that vitamin D deficiency can present an association with COVID-19 severity, especially in the elderly. This is explained by both lower exposure to sunlight and lower 7-dehydrocholesterol values in the skin, which compromises the cutaneous synthesis of 25(OH)D in the elderly (Adami et al. 2009). Moreover, ageing is accompanied by a greater occurrence of chronic diseases (Pimenta et al. 2015), considered a risk factor for COVID-19 severity (Jin et al. 2020), and which are commonly treated with anti-inflammatory, anti-hypertensive, and endocrine agents and with drugs that can also interfere in blood vitamin D levels (Grant et al. 2020).

Within this context, studies conducted in the United Kingdom, Italy and in China (Zhou et al. 2020; Hewitt et al. 2020) reveal high COVID-19 mortality rates in those older than 65, a group that is more susceptible to inadequate levels of vitamin D. In this sense, it is observed that patients with severe cases of COVID-19, characterized by respiratory difficulty, oxygen saturation at rest ≤93%, a partial pressure of arterial oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen ratio ≤300 mmHg, or complications of the disease, such as the need for mechanical ventilation, septic shock, or insufficiency of non-respiratory organs (Liu et al. 2020), are also those who tend to present inadequate blood vitamin D levels. One possible explanation is that 25(OH)D concentration is inversely associated with pro-inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6, an increase in C-reactive protein (CRP), an increased risk of SDRA, and cardiac insufficiency (Alipio 2020), conditions that relate to the severity of the case and to its unfavorable outcomes. One retrospective study conducted in the south of Asia reinforces this hypothesis, as it shows significantly lower vitamin D levels according to the severity of the disease, with a confirmed association for critical cases of COVID-19 and low blood 25(OH)D levels (Alipio 2020).
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Covid deaths are also highly correlated with the unvaxxed.
 
High risk ..old...lack of vitamin d....co morbid...in hiding....get vaxxed.... is the proper message.

You all are just too selfish and afraid to realize some people would rather protect their immune systems then perhaps be locked into a vax for life scenario. Have fun I am starting my outdoor hike in the sun...right now.


userque said:
Covid deaths are also highly correlated with the unvaxxed.
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jem said:
You all are just too selfish and afraid to realize some people would rather protect their immune systems then perhaps be locked into a vax for life secensrio.
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The unvaxxed are clogging up the healthcare facilities. This is unnecessarily putting others' lives at stake. That concern is the opposite of selfish.

I have no problem with the unvaxxed rolling the dice. But when it comes up snake eyes, don't go crying, wheezing, and crawling into a hospital. Stay at home, and let your choices play out; where they won't adversely affect others needing ICU's etc.
 
Bugenhagen said:
Wine and this level of completely fucking stupid is a bad combo.
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Below is an excerpt from an article that states one to two million people would die. They are talking about the United States. I've seen other report / models that say the number of deaths could go as high as 3 - 5 million assuming a Variant of Concern doesn't show up to push the number of deaths higher and push the number of suffering higher.

What about the healthcare system...can it manage the number of patients if such was implemented ? I don't think so.

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Will herd immunity work?

Many researchers say pursuing herd immunity is a bad idea. “Attempting to reach herd immunity via targeted infections is simply ludicrous,” Andersen says.
  • “In the US, probably one to two million people would die.”
  • ...Deaths are only one part of the equation. Individuals who become ill with the disease can experience serious medical and financial consequences, and many people who have recovered from the virus report lingering health effects.
More than 58,000 people were infected with SARS-CoV-2 in Manaus, so that translates to a lot of human suffering.

Earlier in the pandemic, media reports claimed that Sweden was pursuing a herd immunity strategy by essentially letting people live their lives as normal, but that idea is a “misunderstanding”, according to the country’s minister for health and social affairs, Lena Hallengren. Herd immunity “is a potential consequence of how the spread of the virus develops, in Sweden or in any other country”, she told Nature in a written statement, but it is “not a part of our strategy”.

Sweden’s approach, she said, uses similar tools to most other countries: “Promoting social distancing, protecting vulnerable people, carrying out testing and contact tracing, and reinforcing our health system to cope with the pandemic.” Despite this, Sweden is hardly a model of success — statistics from Johns Hopkins University show the country has seen more than ten times the number of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people seen in neighbouring Norway (58.12 per 100,000, compared with 5.23 per 100,000 in Norway).

Sweden’s case fatality rate, which is based on the number of known infections, is also at least three times those of Norway and nearby Denmark...
wrbtrader
 
And I keep saying... the message should be to focus on the high risk..
Start there... when you lump the high risk in with the low risk... some the low risk is also going to tell you to fuck off... and some the high risk will join them.

Its really stupid messaging...unless you are trying to kill off the high risk.


Sweden approached this whole thing far more intelligently and using data and trying to not to destroy freedom.. and now they are very very well.
Of course that could change.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorer...L~CAN~FRA~GRC~GBR~USA&Metric=Confirmed+deaths


userque said:
The unvaxxed are clogging up the healthcare facilities. This is unnecessarily putting others' lives at stake. That concern is the opposite of selfish.

I have no problem with the unvaxxed rolling the dice. But when it comes up snake eyes, don't go crying, wheezing, and crawling into a hospital. Stay at home, and let your choices play out; where they won't adversely affect others needing ICU's etc.
More...
 
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Today (right now), the high risk are those that < 50 years old and children...primarily those that are Not Vaccinated.
  • Simply, +90% of Covid hospitalization, ICU admissions, and deaths are primarily those Not Vaccinated. It's a statistic of the U.S. that can not be ignored in any conversation about how to manage the high-risk groups.
Therefore, forget about last year... it's gone. People need to deal with today's high-risk groups.

As for Sweden, they finally last fall of 2020 admitted that Natural Herd Immunity failed. They then passed a Pandemic Law that would allow them to lockdown if needed although I believe it was a fear-mongering tactic to get their citizens to accept the new strict restrictions and vaccinations.
  • It worked and the Swedish people did what it takes to avoid a lockdown although there were a few protests.
Vaccinations and strict restrictions plus border closures. Sweden's numbers begin to dramatically drop when they had to abandon the flawed Natural Herd Immunity they tried on their citizens.
  • The Natural Herd Immunity guy (Anders Tegnell) is now fully vaccinated and promoting vaccinations as a key route out of this Pandemic...not Natural Herd Immunity.
That's a momentous change in healthcare policy and the Natural Herd Immunity folks have not once acknowledge these facts about Sweden...it's disingenuous. It's the sole reason why I don't believe anything they have to say about Natural Herd Immunity.

Sweden did all the above with a social democratic government. Yeah, Sweden did finally get it right. Also, I've notice the Natural Herd Immunity folks have stopped saying Sweden is the model country after Sweden's numbers begin to dramatically drop from strict restrictions and vaccinations. :sneaky:

P.S. I don't believe the United States has the right mind to reach vaccine herd immunity. Countries like Sweden can do it because a recent interview of citizens in Sweden...the people there believe its their "civic duty" to be vaccinated to protect themself, their friends, and loved ones.
  • Their civic duty...wow. Bravo, well done Sweden.
I think the problem in the U.S. is the politics were thrown into a healthcare crisis. That was minimized in Sweden plus Sweden has made a better effort in dealing with Covid misinformation.

wrbtrader
 
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gwb-trading said:
Oh, you only have to get deliberately infected with a disease which has a 2% Case Fatality Rate. Do you feel lucky?
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The man Clint said the same thing...


+660k individuals in the United States were not lucky. Lead largely by California, Texas, New York, and Florida...the unluckiest individuals.

wrbtrader
 
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