The collapse of socialist Europe as the educated flee.

Quote from Ricter:
Up until the recession, Germany and France were running deficits and Spain had surpluses.
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That's a very misleading statistic, though. Spanish budget surpluses were generated by the various housing activities, including the highly leveraged ones. Needless to say, that value added was, how to put it gently, illusory?
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

That's a very misleading statistic, though. Spanish budget surpluses were generated by the various housing activities, including the highly leveraged ones. Needless to say, that value added was, how to put it gently, illusory?
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The bubble was occurring in the other peripheral countries, ones running deficits, as well. So it's not very fair to call Spain irresponsible.
 
Quote from Ricter:
The bubble was occurring in the other peripheral countries, ones running deficits, as well. So it's not very fair to call Spain irresponsible.
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Housing bubble? Occurring in peripheral countries, other than Spain and Ireland? Not to my knowledge, that's fo' shizzle.

If you look at the budget deficit/surplus for the peripheral countries, Spain and Ireland were running surpluses during 2004-07. During the same period, Italy, Portugal and Greece were all running budget deficits (albeit in Italy's case, they had a primary surplus almost throughout).
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

Housing bubble? Occurring in peripheral countries, other than Spain and Ireland? Not to my knowledge, that's fo' shizzle.

If you look at the budget deficit/surplus for the peripheral countries, Spain and Ireland were running surpluses during 2004-07. During the same period, Italy, Portugal and Greece were all running budget deficits (albeit in Italy's case, they had a primary surplus almost throughout).
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I wasn't referring specifically to a housing bubble, but the chart for Greece does show an impressive run up in Greece's mortgage debt. No argument about deficits/surpluses during the run up to recession, that goes to my point, about calling one country irresponsible and another responsible (based on budgeting alone).

<img src="http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/3/14/saupload_greek_mtg_lending.jpg">
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:
Hey Martin. On a related topic, when are you guys going to hold that referendum and get the hell out of the EU?
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Well, first we need to get through the Scottish and Catalan referendums (referenda?)... Once we get over these things, it will be time for Britain to vote.
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

Euro to new yearly highs today.
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It seems to be only a matter of time until the ECB follows more closely the American Fed. But will that require a Euro Bond? And will the Germans allow it?

I'd like Martinghoul's opinion on this.
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

Well, first we need to get through the Scottish and Catalan referendums (referenda?)... Once we get over these things, it will be time for Britain to vote.
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Britain chafes under the oppressive EU... food labeling requirements.
 
Quote from Ricter:
I wasn't referring specifically to a housing bubble, but the chart for Greece does show an impressive run up in Greece's mortgage debt. No argument about deficits/surpluses during the run up to recession, that goes to my point, about calling one country irresponsible and another responsible (based on budgeting alone).

<img src="http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/3/14/saupload_greek_mtg_lending.jpg">
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You call that an "impressive run up"?

The attached chart is an impressive run up. Yours is a wee little pop :).
 

Attachments

Quote from Martinghoul:

You call that an "impressive run up"?

The attached chart is an impressive run up. Yours is a wee little pop :).
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Let me put my not-arguing-with-you-about-it differently: every country spent the gambling money differently.
 
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