The circular firing squad starting early

[jem]

excellent analysis pabst and aaa

but - the entire fault must be heaped on McCain.

He should have picked up the republican base, some people afraid of a socialist, some people afraid of a black man with Muslim dad and a bunch of hillary supporters.

No if he somehow wins he will have done it based on those middle two reasons... because he had no program - no message - no charisma, no reason to vote for him. What is he offering? Absolutely nothing but four more years.

He is a terrible candidate.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from jem:

excellent analysis pabst and aaa

but - the entire fault must be heaped on McCain.

I respectfully disagree.

I believe that the fault should be laid at the doorstep of Fox News, Republican congressmen and Republican followers.

Allow me to explain: all three of these groups did not allow objective feedback of Republican policies. Fox News, under Ailes, was an echo chamber to whatever the policy happened to be under Bush, socialist, capitalist, immoral, corrupt, whatever, they championed it.

The Republicans in congress castrated congress' power as a check and balance to executive power by always voting in lockstep with the president.

Republican followers bought in to the whole party over country nonsense, where only one party is patriotic.

Now none of the above have much credibility left with the general public.

 

[Brandonf]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:



McCain's single biggest mistake-what cemented his probable loss-was his ineptness during the bailout negotiations. Suspending his campaign only to get smoked in the debate, supporting legislation that BOTH Obama and Bush favored only to see the GOP delegation in the House reject the bailout and then the markets plunged.

Think about MCain being in front anti-bailout. He could've taken the moral high ground by saying here's Obama AND Bush raiding your pocketbooks. Then with the market tanking it would have been like Obama and Iraq. McCain would've held the ultimate "I told you so" card. Dumb move and I was so anti-bailout I've had a hard time supporting him since.

Agree with you there. The bailout could have and should have been an absolute GIFT to McCain. If he had stayed true to what he says are his core convictions and opposed the bailout under any circumstance we would not be talking about an Obama Presidency, McCain would have swung the vote in his favor in a huge way...but he fucked up, he showed that he does not actually have the courage and political judgment that he claims to have. This could have been a single issue that turned the election in his favor, and he blew it badly.

 

[Brandonf]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

EOD an Obama win is the best outcome for us bro. Since there's zero chance he'll be effective-as much because of Congress as Obama specific-one of two things will happen. The electorate either rejects liberalism and a populist like Palin or Huckabee comes back in 2012 OR we head into a secession environment and we get to be neighbors in Charleston. Win-win....

I was just talking with my cousin and sister about this a few weeks ago. I think that Obama is going to be about as effective as Carter, and he is going to have the same effect on the Democratic Party. The only problem is Bush has already done the same thing now to the Republicans, so what you will really have is people with no belief in either party. We could end up with either massive revolt or total apathy.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Anti-intellectualism masquerading as constructive criticism.

Whether Iraq, the Patriot Act, Medicare or even the bailout, Democrats voted with Bush. In fact FAR MORE Democrats voted with Bush on the bailout than Republicans!

Fox news has a viewership smaller than CBS, NBC and ABC combined. Being a cable titan compared to ratings lightweights like Keith Olberman is not a voice makes. Even if Fox were Goliath can you in turn demonstrate widespread criticism by the MSM of the Democrat majority? Yea media outlets are biased. To blame the only conservative news source in America for being too-partisan is so ridiculous it's un comment worthy.

Quote from bigdavediode:

I respectfully disagree.

I believe that the fault should be laid at the doorstep of Fox News, Republican congressmen and Republican followers.

Allow me to explain: all three of these groups did not allow objective feedback of Republican policies. Fox News, under Ailes, was an echo chamber to whatever the policy happened to be under Bush, socialist, capitalist, immoral, corrupt, whatever, they championed it.

The Republicans in congress castrated congress' power as a check and balance to executive power by always voting in lockstep with the president.

Republican followers bought in to the whole party over country nonsense, where only one party is patriotic.

Now none of the above have much credibility left with the general public.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Anti-intellectualism masquerading as constructive criticism.

Umm... Pabst, just because you heard the word anti-intellectualism applied to Republicans doesn't meant that any post contains anti-intellectualism.

Whether Iraq, the Patriot Act, Medicare or even the bailout, Democrats voted with Bush. In fact FAR MORE Democrats voted with Bush on the bailout than Republicans!

Yes, but on legislation banning ferret meat, the Republicans voted in lockstep.

(See how cherry picking is not a valid form of argument?) Overall the Republicans have voted in lockstep with the President consistently and criticized those that voted against any bill as unpatriotic and America-haters.

Fox news has a viewership smaller than CBS, NBC and ABC combined.

Apples and oranges. One is a news network, and three are entertainment networks. You have now committed the logical fallacy of fallacious comparison.

Being a cable titan compared to ratings lightweights like Keith Olberman is not a voice makes. Even if Fox were Goliath can you in turn demonstrate widespread criticism by the MSM of the Democrat majority? Yea media outlets are biased. To blame the only conservative news source in America for being too-partisan is so ridiculous it's un comment worthy.

You don't consider the Washington Times to be a "conservative" news source?

 

[vitajex]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Dumb move and I was so anti-bailout I've had a hard time supporting him since.

Did you not say something around the time of the bailout that it was a relatively cheap protection for banks that were inadequately protected under FDIC?

(edit- this is what I mean)

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137818&pagenumber=1

-v

 

[jem]

here is a thought..

if bush and mccain were running in a republican primary.... would mccain even win... Why?

Just shows you how fortunate it is to be the Democrat right now.

 

[oktiri]

Quote from jem:

here is a thought..

if bush and mccain were running in a republican primary.... would mccain even win... Why?

Just shows you how fortunate it is to be the Democrat right now.

Leave it to the republicans to vote for the retarded privileged kid who went to boarding schools and grew up in Connecticut than the war hero who lived in a cage for 5 years......and then call itself the party of national security / small town values


I once fucked a girl on the first date who told me two hours prior to me nailing her nobody would kiss her before the third date

That's Republicanism for ya

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

I started this one also.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138163
If you remember the stated "Paulson Plan" mentioned "shoring up banks" I took this to mean FDIC insured depository banks NOT investment banks. If Citi fails we pay if Goldman fails we gloat. Big diff. I can't quarrel with a pre-emptive bailout on behalf of insured account holders but I oppose bailouts for stockholders. The drafted legislation then became a pos.



But I then said this though a week later on 9/29 after the details were public:

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

The Republicans missed a Heaven sent opportunity to divorce themselves in one single swoop from a host of hated elements like Bush, Wall Street and the liberal give away Democratic Congress.

This was Boehner's boner.

If the bailout had been closer to the originally stated plan of

Quote from vitajex:

Did you not say something around the time of the bailout that it was a relatively cheap protection for banks that were inadequately protected under FDIC?

(edit- this is what I mean)

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137818&pagenumber=1

-v