Quote from Maverick74:
We are going to have to agree to disagree. The issue is not whether it's insurance or a retirement plan, the issue is we are broke. The government is like a crack addict that keeps promising to make it better then the second they get a few dollars from you they go buy more crack.
I actually would not have a problem with social security the way it is if the government could not borrow against it. But that will never happen. We don't live in utopia and it's not fair to use utopia as some sort of goal. The government will always spend the money and monetize that debt. When you get the money back in retirement it's only worth a fraction of what you put in because of inflation. In other words, the government you could say is acting like a broker that charges the citizen an enormous vig through in inflation to hold the money. That is outright theft. BTW, this is why no one can actually live off of social security when they get it, because it's not worth anything. So what's the point?
Again, I would rather support a system that provides free housing, food and basic medical care to anyone over 75. You pay no social security taxes in this system and you get nothing back. If you save anything on your own, good for you. If you don't, you live in government retired housing. Just anything to get the governments hands off our money. Enough already.
i will support you in your qwest for less spending. i insist we do cuts in order of most wastfull spending first. i would even put social security on that list once we exaust all other items on that list. here is my list:Quote from Maverick74:
We are going to have to agree to disagree. The issue is not whether it's insurance or a retirement plan, the issue is we are broke. The government is like a crack addict that keeps promising to make it better then the second they get a few dollars from you they go buy more crack.
Quote from trefoil:
Wrong.
The money you get back is adjusted for the level of salaries at the time you retire. In real terms, it's worth quite a bit more than the money anyone could possibly put in, because over the long term, salaries rise more than inflation. Even now.
As for "monetizing" the debt, also wrong. It's invested in Treasuries because they're the safest thing to invest in. Period, the end. Or haven't you seen the results of the latest 2 year auction?
Your post amounts to fact-free doom-mongering.
Quote from Free Thinker:
i will support you in your qwest for less spending. i insist we do cuts in order of most wastfull spending first. i would even put social security on that list once we exaust all other items on that list. here is my list:
military $700 billion cut in half.
supplemental war spending iraq and afgan. 100 billion a year.gone.
farm subsidies.gone.
corporate tax shelters. gone.
religious tax exemption. gone.
seperate veterans health system. gone.
once you get through all of these talk to me about social security cuts.
as did the republicans in control many years before that.Quote from Maverick74:
Cut them? I would get rid all of them. Too bad nobody on the left has any desire to join me in that. You know the democrats have controlled the congress and therefore the budget since 2006 and none of those things have been cut.
Quote from Free Thinker:
as did the republicans in control many years before that.
Quote from Maverick74:
I'm not disagreeing with you there. This is not a right vs left thing. You asked me what I would cut and I told you. You asked me what I would do about social security and I told you. The only candidate that I believe will make good on his word to do these things are Ron Paul. All the other republicans are chicken shit to actually follow through on their promises.
Quote from Free Thinker:
yes. but my problem with you is you attacked me as a big spending liberal in support of these terrible social programs like social security and never once mentioned republican favored cuts at all until i pressed you.
this thread was never about spending in the first place. it only asked the question. did the bush tax cuts work and if so should we continue them? all the data shows they did not work and so we probably should end them at least for the rich.
Quote from Free Thinker:
yes. but my problem with you is you attacked me as a big spending liberal in support of these terrible social programs like social security and never once mentioned republican favored cuts at all until i pressed you.
this thread was never about spending in the first place. it only asked the question. did the bush tax cuts work and if so should we continue them? all the data shows they did not work and so we probably should end them at least for the rich.
Quote from Maverick74:
You know, you can learn a lot about a guy when he resorts to ad hominem attacks vs engaging in intellectual debate. Take your trash talking someone else Vhehn. I'll respond to intelligent posts. Go back to your home in P&R where your kind feel more comfortable.