The Break Even Stop is a Psychological Crutch for Newbies

Do you use break even stops?

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S-Trader said:
Agree with your ending sentiments (only), even though you still don't get it because you're trapped within the small world of your own reality. Hypothetical, but very reasonable/plausible "what if?" examples are simply used to demonstrate exceptions to your broad-brush generalizations. That you either don't realize that, or simply dismiss them out of hand, show that you choose to live within the mental constraints of your own little world, vs. realizing or acknowledging that there is much more out there than just you.

<--- R E A L (your reality) I T Y --->

If anything, the burden of proof should be on the one making the broad-brush statements -- you. Maybe you just haven't been around long enough, or known enough traders with other styles, to realize that there's much more to trading than just what any one individual like *you* does or knows. Anyone who's traded longer than a cup of coffee knows how much variation there is in trading -- basically, as many different styles, methods, goals, and paths to "success" as there are different human beings. Maybe one day you'll realize that, even though that's not a necessary realization for attaining your own success in trading or life.

And I do wish you continued *success* in both, however you choose to define that...
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I daytrade since 1990, so I am not really a newbie anymore. Meet a lot of traders (traders for own accounts but also traders for banks). I helped a few (not many, only those that deserved to be helped) to improve the quality of their live a lot. Showing them how to trade to avoid mental and physical problems. One trader could more less double his return and is feeling much better as a person now. I studied for years behavioral finance to understand why people do what. For me trading is much more than crunching numbers.

My statement about break even stops is based on the majority of traders, because you can never make a statement for 100% of all traders. One lunatic is enough to miss the 100%. Using a system like I explained will benefit much more traders than the break even stop "system", which is not a system at all but a random decision. A decision that, if you could replay a period a few times, would give each time probably another break even stop.

I trade for a living, I don't live for trading. I had a fund many years ago, was registered as CTA but closed it (when I had enough money), and traded only my own money from that moment on. The reason was that I wanted to live like I wished and have not a single commitment to other people anymore. Money is only important to a certain level. Then your priority list changes. My priority list changed when I closed my fund, and my life changed immensely too. My choice was to live more happily but less rich.

But when I trade I am focused and committed for 100%. When I am in a trade it is war and I want to take all the money I can. Break even stops are not part of this war, for me it is a sign of weakness, or missing knowledge.
 
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bmwhendrix said:
If it were not for the big egos, self serving opinions, intolerance and self righteousness, ET would be a pretty good place.
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Most of these people drive a BMW. It is connected with the image of BMW. Especially the big ego and the arrogance (that you forgot to mention).
 
There is a reason newbies and sub-pars will use the break-even stop. They are under-capitalized and feel that if they can get out of a trade at break-even, they have somehow "won". Nothing could be further from the truth. Not only have they not won, they have quite possibly choked off big winning profits whilst doing so.
Here's what typically happens: Traders with insufficient capital see the possibility of trading very short term charts with huge amounts of margin for big money and quick safe exits. And so, apply a trade management system that will accomplish one of the goals which is to get out quickly. It doesn't end up making much money though due to the satisfaction of that very goal.
The truth of the matter is that under-capitalized traders have it exactly backwards. They should be in "no margin" situations investing money long term until they have enough capital to step into the short term ring. Well-capitalized traders are the ones that can set their stops according to the market and its noise and forgo the breakeven stop as a crutch. They don't have to hit a home-run either with high margin. They can go in and day trade with little or no margin and make plenty of money to cover their needs without risking huge amounts relative to their financial position without a break-even stop.
Under-capitalized traders need to be "no margin" long term investors. Well-capitalized traders can be in the market on any time frame they wish.
 
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bmwhendrix said:
The midnight shift :)
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I know areas where people (from a certain continent) drive old BMW's because they think this shows how successful they are. They have no money but need absolutely a BMW to confirm their successful financial status, so they buy old second hand. Park the car in front of where they live and then take the bus to save money.
The fact that you see them take the bus for the midnight shift means you probably do the same. I sleep when they take the midnight shift or go at that time to places where these poor people don't go, like restaurants.
 
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