The Boy who came back from Heaven.

[stu]

Quote from tomdavis:

Physicist Carl Sagan, a skeptic of near death experiences and not religious in any way, believed there was some testable scientific "evidence" supporting reincarnation.

• " I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking" Carl Sagan

You were saying about Carl Sagan?

 

[pspr]

I've also read extensively ever since Raymond Moody released his book, "Life after Life" in 1975. The anecdotal evidence for something beyond this life is overwhelming. Combine this with a study of evidence for miracles through out history and a study of evidence of the story of the life of Jesus and you have a very compelling circumstantial case for the afterlife.

Can you find one piece of evidence that you can point to and say this is actual physical proof that life goes on after death? No. But, I have seen enough and experienced enough that my scientific background tells me it is highly probable. I've also examined the nay-sayers theories and those explaining the reported near-death experience and have not found any I find as a credible argument to explain all aspects of the experience.

All I can say is don't believe, me, Carl Sagen or anyone else. Look into it yourself. After all, it is about where YOU will spend eternity and probably sooner than you think.

Quote from tomdavis:

Anecdotal evidence about such experiences is not convincing. It may be true, but there's no way to verify the evidence.

Physicist Carl Sagan, a skeptic of near death experiences and not religious in any way, believed there was some testable scientific "evidence" supporting reincarnation. Two investigative scientists who have researched this field are Ian Stevenson, MD ("Children Who Rember Previous Lives"), and his protégé Jim Tucker, MD ("Life Before Life").

Please keep in mind that there's a big difference beween evidence and proof. I've yet to see anyone offer irrefutable proof of life after death, but the evidence is interesting.

My wife became interested in this subject after we had an unusual experience with our youngest daughter. I've read just about everything out there and I'm not ready to say that I'm 100% convinced, but there's enough evidence to allow for the possibility.

 

[LORD KAL-EL]

Quote from stu:

• " I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking" Carl Sagan

I hope you don't mind my highlighting the most relevant words.

 

[tomdavis]

Sagan did say that...

But he also said that the evidence for reincarnation is worthy of additional study.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Sagan was a staunch believer, only that he thought that Ian Stevenson's work was worthy of further study. Sagan was a good scientist and willing to change his mind if further evidence came to light.

In Sagan's book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, he says, "At the time of writing there are three claims in the ESP field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study: (1) that by thought alone humans can (barely) affect random numer generators in computers: (2) that people under mild sensory deprivation can receive thoughts or images "projected" at them; and (3) that young children sometimes report the details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation."

He goes on to say that he doesn't accept any of these as valid yet because there's not enough evidence to reach a conclusion. He writes: "I pick these claims not because I think they're likely to be valid (I don't), but as examples of contentions that might be true." In other words, he's not convined yet, but there's evidence that can be, and should be, tested. In his words, they "deserve serious study."

Quote from stu:

• " I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking" Carl Sagan

You were saying about Carl Sagan?

 

[Ricter]

I sorely miss Carl Sagan. "Cosmos" changed me. And I'm convinced he had a big, unrecognized part in the ending of the cold war.

 

[phenomena]

Quote from Ricter:

I sorely miss Carl Sagan. "Cosmos" changed me. And I'm convinced he had a big, unrecognized part in the ending of the cold war.

That's interesting... How's that?

 

[stu]

Quote from tomdavis:

Sagan did say that...

But he also said that the evidence for reincarnation is worthy of additional study.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said Sagan was a staunch believer, only that he thought that Ian Stevenson's work was worthy of further study. Sagan was a good scientist and willing to change his mind if further evidence came to light.

In Sagan's book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, he says, "At the time of writing there are three claims in the ESP field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study: (1) that by thought alone humans can (barely) affect random numer generators in computers: (2) that people under mild sensory deprivation can receive thoughts or images "projected" at them; and (3) that young children sometimes report the details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation."

He goes on to say that he doesn't accept any of these as valid yet because there's not enough evidence to reach a conclusion. He writes: "I pick these claims not because I think they're likely to be valid (I don't), but as examples of contentions that might be true." In other words, he's not convined yet, but there's evidence that can be, and should be, tested. In his words, they "deserve serious study."

I never said Carl Sagan didn't say that.
And just how exactly am I putting words in your mouth when I only quoted Carl Sagan's own.

Knowing nothing to suggest more than wishful thinking, but to irrespectively disgard that understanding to allow imagination convince you of anything , which is what you infer, is not something Carl Sagan gave any indication of.

Carl Sagan was wonderfully imaginative and at the same time, clever and honest enough never to let that run away with his intellect or integrity.

If you imagine reincarnation might be possible for no other reason than wishful thinking, then you'd be nearer to what Carl Sagan wrote than you apparently appear to be.

 

[stu]

Quote from LORD KAL-EL:

I hope you don't mind my highlighting the most relevant words.

Would he also know of nothing to suggest there were fairies at the bottom of his garden. Is that supposed to mean there could be ?

 

[tomdavis]

When Carl Sagan says that three things in particular "deserve serious study" he's saying there might be something there. In a television interview, Sagan mentioned Ian Stevenson's work specifically. That doesn't sound like wishful thinking to me.

Quote from stu:

I never said Carl Sagan didn't say that.
And just how exactly am I putting words in your mouth when I only quoted Carl Sagan's own.

Knowing nothing to suggest more than wishful thinking, but to irrespectively disgard that understanding to allow imagination convince you of anything , which is what you infer, is not something Carl Sagan gave any indication of.

Carl Sagan was wonderfully imaginative and at the same time, clever and honest enough never to let that run away with his intellect or integrity.

If you imagine reincarnation might be possible for no other reason than wishful thinking, then you'd be nearer to what Carl Sagan wrote than you apparently appear to be.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from pspr:

I've also read extensively ever since Raymond Moody released his book, "Life after Life" in 1975. The anecdotal evidence for something beyond this life is overwhelming. Combine this with a study of evidence for miracles through out history and a study of evidence of the story of the life of Jesus and you have a very compelling circumstantial case for the afterlife.

Can you find one piece of evidence that you can point to and say this is actual physical proof that life goes on after death? No. But, I have seen enough and experienced enough that my scientific background tells me it is highly probable. I've also examined the nay-sayers theories and those explaining the reported near-death experience and have not found any I find as a credible argument to explain all aspects of the experience.

All I can say is don't believe, me, Carl Sagen or anyone else. Look into it yourself. After all, it is about where YOU will spend eternity and probably sooner than you think.

=====================
Good pointsPSR. Mr Tom davis & family watch this!!!!!!!

Speaking of Mr Sagen & stars, GOOG this name ;
a most interesting dying star-NASA named /nicknamed it'' Ant nebula3.''

I am not calling mr Sagen a star;
''Antstar'' [NASA}picture is quite interesting,
have several bookmarks with that ''ant star''.............................

Thanks